Ask A Woman: He works hard for the money, so hard for it, honey…
If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. She also might provide an answer without waiting to be asked. That happens from time to time too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com .
Beth,
I’m a recent college graduate who has just started a new job with a company I interned with for a number of years during school. I’ve tried to elevate my attire accordingly, however, I seem to have been unsuccessful at doing so (my boss has recently hinted at me dressing more professionally). There are two issues I run into in this department.
1. I work in an office of exclusively women, so role models of appropriate male attire are non-existent in my office.
2. I work for an event production company, which means my day-to-day tasks vary widely. I can be meeting with the industry professionals and board members one minute and then doing some more physical tasks the next. Most days are simply spent in the office with my coworkers, but when I have meetings I need to be able to dress accordingly.
I’m young, and I want to be known for more than my age and my apparent youthful appearance. Any ideas on how I could blend dressing appropriately, perhaps a little older, yet still be able to get my hands dirty when I need to?
– Jay
Hi Jay,
Congrats on your new job; it sounds like an exciting time in your life. Hopefully you can walk away from today’s post with some ideas on how to make it as positive and successful as possible.
You don’t mention what you’re wearing now that your boss finds objectionable…so I’m going to have to cover the whole gamut—forgive me if some of this seems obvious. Presumably you know that sweatpants, stained clothing, ripped clothing, flip flops, baseball hats, etc. aren’t appropriate in a professional setting. Good rule o’ thumb: if you would wear it while recovering from the stomach flu, it doesn’t belong in the workplace. So does that mean you’re wearing jeans and t-shirts? If that’s the case, then your boss would probably prefer, at a minimum, that you wear khakis or chinos or dress pants and button-downs or sweaters. Maybe a blazer thrown in once in awhile. Or are you wearing khakis and button downs now? If that’s the case, then your boss would probably prefer suits and ties. It’s hard for me to tell you WEAR THIS because I don’t know what you’re wearing now. But whatever you’re doing isn’t cutting it, so take it up a notch. If you still feel at a loss—flat out ask your boss. This is your first real job, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that you ask for guidance with something like dress code, especially since there aren’t any dudes around for you to emulate.
Once you figure out what the dress code is, execute it well. Here is where many people fall down. Changing from a tee with a beer brand graphic on it to a button up shirt is all well and good, but if the shirt is wrinkled and not tucked in and too long in the sleeves, you’re still going to be presenting that youthful, unkempt, unprofessional appearance that you’re trying to avoid. It can take time to figure out how something is supposed to fit on your specific body type. The good news is that Dappered has a ton of resources already available on this topic (and there’s no point in me rehashing all of it here verbatim), so take a look around the site, then compare the information you’ve gleaned to what’s hanging in your closet. Stand in front of a mirror, try on all your clothing and ask yourself, does this fit the way it should?
If you’re in need of a wardrobe reboot, take notes and bring them with you when you go shopping. Again, I’ll point you toward Dappered’s excellent resources–take note of weekly sales highlighted, shoe reviews, and the like. As you look, as you shop, as you wear better fitting and higher quality clothing, you’ll figure out your personal style. Also consider finding a tailor of repute and flagging some of your clothing budget to go towards tailoring. You’ll look much more put together buying fewer items, but having those items fit you perfectly, than boasting a big wardrobe of ill-fitting duds.
The other challenge you mention is that you sometimes have to get down and dirty. I think the easiest solution here—assuming that when you’re doing these manual labor tasks, you’re not seeing anyone important you’d need to impress—is to store an additional set of clothing at work. Say you know you’ll be spending the morning schmoozing with VIP, but then in the afternoon you’ll be setting up folding chairs and lifting heavy boxes. Wear your finest to the office, present that professional front, then after lunch, change into something more suitable for physical labor. If that’s not possible, simply alter your outfit to make it more conducive to the work—take of your suit jacket and tie, then put them back on afterwards. I don’t advocate doing your best to wreck your finest clothing, but most quality clothing can take some hits and not suffer too badly for it.
Finally, even on the days you’re not meeting with industry professionals, and maybe your boss doesn’t care as much how you look, consider maintaining that high standard of dress. Everything you do at work, including how you physically present yourself, is a category in which you’re judged—fair or not. One of the oldest pieces of advice for anyone starting out in the workforce is to dress for the job you want, not the one you have. Make yourself stand out for those promotions, perks, big responsibilities, and exciting challenges, by presenting the very best version of yourself, appearance-wise. Then back it up with good work product. Good luck, Jay!
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
Suit up. But because you’re in a less conservative field, feel free to express yourself with bolder colors and patterns. Hell, make it a three piece. Wear a colorful pocket square. Go bold with socks. Whatever you need to do to liven it up. You’ll be set for VIP meetings. When you need to do more physical work, lose the jacket, roll up your sleeves, and get to it. Once you get past the initial discomfort of a suit, you’ll realize it’s an extremely versatile and comfortable rig.
As with almost every question asked to an online forum, the answer is far simpler and much less confusing than people think.
Ask your boss, not an online forum.
None of us are psychic, so we can only guess as to what’s appropriate in your workplace, or more importantly, in your boss’s mind. An educated guess is still a guess. This is what I would do in your place:
“Hi . Can I ask you a question? I’m not sure of the dress code because of the way I switch between meetings and having to do physical work. Can you tell me what you think would be appropriate? I want to make sure that I’m dressing appropriately so I’d like some guidance.”
As I said in response to another article where a reader asked what someone was thinking, 99% of the world’s problems would be solved if people were just open with each other. I really see no downside to asking your boss for clarification.
Again the scenario is vague, but if a whole set of clothes for labor isn’t doable, be ready to shell out for dress pants more often, but have some extra undershirts and deodorant ready. If allowed, remove your button up shirt (and jacket, sweater, tie, if worn) for the nitty gritty, and change your t-shirt afterwards. Also, if this is the case, I’d recommend at least 2 pairs of pants for every suit you buy, as the jacket will probably last much longer than your pants will.
Yet another reason I’m happy to work from home… my biggest decision is whether or not to wear pants.
Hint: the answer is always “no”.
This. Just ask the guy.
Where can I find those “I Have Given Up” sweats? Abercrombie & Fitch?
Unfortunately “Boss gets angry/irritated that you’re not reading his mind” isn’t such an uncommon reaction to expect. Especially if he’s “hinting” instead of being straightforward himself about what improvements need to be made.
Jay up there could have made it a lot clearer, of course.
I agree with you that he should talk to his boss.
His issue though, in point #1, is that his office is exclusively women. So their idea of professional dress may not actually reflect his reality. He is asking for ideas to better understand the vast cloth that is reality of work-wear.
You mean the woman?
Whoops you’re right, and his question makes alot more sense now. I wouldn’t be surprised if his female boss has some unrealistic ideas on what a guy should be wearing.
Physical work = you need clothes that let you have a good range of motion with your arms and legs. Looking “professional” usually means erring on the side of being a little more conservative in style.
True business casual always, and I mean always, works. That is between #3 (khaki and sweater) and #4. For the shirt, higher arm hole, shoulder pleats, would definitely help the physical work aspect. Also, err on the side of a non-button down collar. A semi-spread or spread collar WITH COLLAR STAYS looks really sharp.
An option is to bring a tie with you rolled up in a travel cylinder. Put the tie on for client meetings. A good choice is a solid navy tie, as that works well with many many shirt colors (light green, light blue, white, light purple) and pant pairings. Remove the tie and roll it up when you need to move stuff around for event set-up.
Wear pants with a good fit (so you have freedom of motion in your legs for any event set up), durable, and WASHABLE — wrinkle-free cotton would be my fabric of choice for pants. Err on the side of grey, dark grey, black, and navy as these are more “professional” than camel colored khakis.
Imho, start off simple. Nice (IRONED) shirt with slacks or khakis. Maybe bring a subdued blazer and tie that you can throw on in case you need to sharpen up fast. When you need to do physical labor, just do what men have always been doing: roll up your sleeves and have at it. Sure, your nice duds might wear faster, but your clothes are meant to serve you, not the other way around.
Wear a tie. That’s what she wants.
As others have mentioned, we don’t know what you’re wearing now, so its hard to pointout improvements. But here are a few tips:
1) Dress in layers that you can remove when you’re doing work (and cover up your sweat stains when done).
2) Keep the trusty blue sportcoat on the back of your door/cube that you can use to dress up an outfit.
3) v-neck undershirts. We should not see your undershirts.
4) There are a number of “commuter” blazers and pants that offer technical fabric and stretch that’s suitable (pun intended) for the office. Levi’s and Golite come to mind. http://www.golite.com/Mens-Meridian-Blazer-P47029.aspx?gclid=CPOZl-CW_rwCFYMcOgod52sAAQ. There’s also Nau. It’s a bit pricey, but worth every penny. http://www.nau.com/mens/categories/jackets/
5) Have a small Dopp bag with deodorant, soap, baby wipes (for a “cloth shower”), etc. you can use to clean up.
6) Wear breathable fabrics (cotton, linen, technical fabrics) where possible.
Furious – the internet has once again addressed your sartorial needs:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/166894238/i-have-given-up-sweat-suit-royal-blue
But we insist on pictures.
He didn’t say physical labor, he just said more physical task, which sounds more like hauling a box of papers in to a meeting room.
Wear suits, I can pick my 4 year old up in them, you should be able to pick some boxes up easily enough without the jacket on.
“Stand in front of a mirror, try on all your clothing and ask yourself, does this fit the way it should?” Alternatively, get involved on the Dappered Threads forum, and the helpful folks there will be able to offer their opinions on fit and style to help you decide if what you have is appropriate, as well as provide some advice if your wardrobe does, in fact, need a reboot.
I work in finance for a construction company, so I sometimes find myself having to go from a Manhattan boardroom to a job site trailer and back again. Tips:
– MAKE SURE EVERYTHING FITS. A slimmer, dialed in business casual will look more formal than one that’s got lots of billowing cloth. This is probably the #1 lesson for new starts in the professional world.
– Dark colored dressier boot that still has a commando sole. I’ve been wearing the Frye Arkansas boot quite a bit and it goes from snow to dirt to polished floors with ease.
– Khaki-colored pants lean more casual. Go gray, navy, charcoal, dark brown, or wear actual wool pants sometimes.
– Wool slacks, button down, solid merino V-neck if it’s cold, splurge-worthy blazer, and a non-silk tie. Sprinkle in some pocket square to taste. Done right you’re just one-tick short of a business suit, but if you need to get down and dirty you take off the blazer and tie, roll up your sleeves, and you’re good to go.
ForeverGuest is dead on!!! I worked for years in sales, and suiting up made my career. I ripped a few pairs of slacks and yellowed out the pits of many shirts, but it was well worth the investment. It is 100% the best way to compensate for age. Buy inexpensive suits, but focus on fit. 3 Piece suits are awesome in summer months. There are no downsides to being the office’s best dressed, especially when its populated by mostly women. Suit up, Young Buck!!
i would think having only female coworkers allows you to be creatively stylish and bold. because nothing is defined yet. if the women pay attention to what you wear, they will give comments and you can take that as feedback and improve. but obviously, do style according to your true self.
Most companies of a reasonable size actually have a dress code. If one doesn’t exist, perhaps it’s appropriate to request one. If one does exist, bring that to the Dapper Threads (the “Forum” in the upper right of this page) and we’ll get you all settled.
I noticed you mention wanting to look older. Having worked in finance with some older guys, here is some (sarcastic) advise:
1. if you want to look older, wear pants with pleats and cheap suits. Nothing will peg you as a middle management candidate in his 40’s like pleated khakis or billowy Mens wearhouse suits.
2. black penny loafers go with with everything no exceptions. Paired with black socks, always…maybe dark brown when you’re feeling dangerous.
3. Nothing says age like a belly. Beer belly’s also add years to a figure.
4. Breathing heavy, not in the sexual harassment way, just in the “standing up from the chair exhausted me” way.
5. Golf shirts, preferably with the golf logo proudly emblazoned over your man-boobs. This works particulary well if you pair golf shirts with fascinating talk about obscure golfers’ performance at even more obscure golf tournaments (“Did you hear about Bo Van Pelt’s collapse on the back nine and his failure to qualify at the RBC Heritage tournament?”)
6. Sweating. Always make sure there are a few beads of sweat on your forehead…I swear, some guys must carry around little spray bottles to perfect those beads of sweat.
7. Bald is beautiful, even if you have a full head of hear. Start shaving your hairline back in front. This paired with the beads of sweat from #6 will make you seem older in no time.
8. Bad breath, granted halitosis is a characteristic of people everywhere, older gentlemen seem to aquire a specific mouth odor. Perhaps it is associated with dentures, try having some teeth pulled and replaced with dentures.
9. Posture and standing just right. When standing around older men always have something more interesting going on in their pocket than whatever conversation they are having. Try putting some marbles in your pocket so you can jiggle them about when standing around talking. Also, appear distracted every now and then.
Or you can just take Beth’s advice above, she seems pretty smart.
LMAO I legit started dying; since I too am in finance and your sarcasm is spot on!!!
Holy crap this was hilarious. I work closely with my finance dept. This is so SPOT ON!!!
Do they all have secret training classes that make them so robotic??
I’d talk to the boss. Your question is reasonable and if your job requires you to sweat a lot ruining a suit is ridiculous. My quess would be a suit for meeting with clients. But were all just guessing talk to your boss or a coworker whos opinion you trust.
I have a similar work situation. I’m an engineer working at a company that makes plumbing products. I spend time in the labs covered in drywall dust, the majority of my time in my cubical, and occasionally sitting in on meetings with marketing or the executive team. I’m still figuring things out but what works best for me are BR chinos and BR non-iron shirts. These two items hold up well in the lab and still come off as presentable in business meetings. I’m a pretty slim build and find the BR tends to fit me well and comes off much more presentable than many of the more senior engineers.
A professional dress always gives a decent look. A women should wear nice clothes with nice perfume because fragrance for women is the best impacting tact to impress others.
He can still ask. Last I knew, women can carry on intelligent conversations.