The Shirt Tailoring Experiment: Alfani Red, Perry Ellis, and Nordstrom
Not to sound like a sartorial beatnik version of Johnny Cochran, but… the fit is it. Man.
Can ya dig?
Getting a slim fit blazer tailored in at the sides can make you look like you’re ten pounds lighter, and the same goes for dress shirts. Many of us don’t do the entire business casual chinos on the bottom / solo button up on top look, but even if you’re rarely without a jacket, it’s still worthwhile to have your slim-fit shirts brought in. Sometimes your blazer has to come off and you don’t want to look sloppy. That, and a tailored dress shirt actually feels better under your jacket. Pics in a moment, but first the vitals:
- Height: 5’9″-10″, Weight: Between 165-170lbs
- Shirt Size: Medium. Neck and Sleeve shirt size: 15.5 / 33. Jacket size: 38-40.
- Wear a 31-32 waist in jeans and trousers
- I like to exercise, have an unusually large torso, and some thickness in the shoulders.
Alfani RED Red Check Dress Shirt – $45.00 (wait for a sale)
Alfani RED leans slimmer, but calling these shirts a true slim fit might be generous. Before tailoring there’s too much wobble at the sides and even through the sleeves. I always liked the pattern on this red mini check but it just didn’t feel right away from a suit. Post tailoring it’s like a whole new shirt and even goes great with jeans.
Perry Ellis Blue Box Weave Button Up (discontinued design)
Getting a shirt tailored is like putting a new striped band on a long forgotten watch. This shirt might be ten years old. It was my personal “oh-hell-I-forgot-to-do-laundry” shirt, and if you look at the left picture you can see why I never wore it. It was big enough that it felt uncomfortable. After tailoring, it’s regained a place in regular rotation.
Nordstrom Trim Fit Wrinkle Free – $49.50 (sizes are real scarce online)
More proof that even “slim fit” shirts need tailoring. Nordstrom’s wrinkle-free slim fit shirts are a personal go-to for dressed up/suited wear. With a BMI around 23-24, my body type is “normal” but I’m far from skinny. My torso is also unusually large. Take a look at the pins that were put in pre-tailoring. My tailor took at least an inch off each side and down through the arms. Top pic is after. Now it fits like a custom shirt and moves ridiculously well under my jackets.
Total cost per shirt = around $15.00. Do you get your shirts tailored? Is it worth it to you? Leave it all below.
Above: Pants by Banana Republic, Watch by Golana, all shirt collars assisted by Wurkin Stiffs.
Useful post. Thanks, Joe!
May I ask what your measurements are? Shoulders, chest, waist, arms, etc. (Maybe even legs/inseam too, for future reference.) Thanks again!
Yup. Tailoring is a must if you care about fit. Once my tailor told me how cheap it is per shirt — $15 — and I put on a tailored shirt, I could never go back. Now I wait for the good deals on shirts that I love and just assume that I’ll be getting them tailored before wear. Very worth it.
Great post.
I gotta tailor shirts too… thanks for the tip. Also, that’s an ugly green background wall. LOL
I too have a long torso and it has driven me nuts how shirts puff out near the waist…the tailoring looks great, it’s something that I will now try.
Tailoring is definitely worth it. Currently in the process of rotating all of my shirts through the tailor. Worth noting that if it has to be taken in more than 2-3in on the side its going to cost you more than the 15. Forget the reason, but something about the seams I think.
Great post, Joe! I had been waiting for something like this. Off the rack vs. tailored is really night and day. Your tailor is excellent, by the way. I have a similar Perry Ellis shirt to the one above- I was SWIMMING in it even at the correct sizes, until I got it tailored.
I’m not sure why these mass market companies insist on making men’s dress shirt cut so overly big, even most “slim fits”. You would think it’s more cost effective to eliminate the excess fabric during production, but what do I know?
My tailor also shortens the body of the shirt so it doesn’t hang so low under my waist/ belt. Do you ever get that done?
They make ’em because people want ’em that way; you and I and Joe and the menswear blog readers are the minority, amigo.
#easybutton
I went to my first tailor last week to get a blazer and shirt done. I assumed the price was going to be around $10-15, but then he told me it would be $6.00.
He is now godfather to my first born.
Joe – Have you noticed that the Nordstrom brand shirts are extra wide in the back, right underneath the shoulders? Always seems to be extra material and it’s not “tailorable”
Hey Joe, what about non-slim fit shirts? Being tall and slim (and having limted funds) has limited me to Lands End shirts ONLY; for their trimness and tallness. Do you think that if I tailored a regular tall shirt it would come out just as well? Why or why not?
I would love to go back to buying shirts at the thrift store like I did when I was younger and just have them tailored so that they look professional.
I have to get shirts tailored b/c I have disproportionately long arms, i.e. 6’1″, 37 in arms. For some reason, my tailor whiffed on the arms and chest. On a couple of shirts (different tailors) buttons are holding on for dear life and I can barely even roll up my shirt sleeves. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have paid either of those tailors, but I made the fatal flaw of not trying on everything to make sure I was happy before I left the shop. Don’t repeat my mistake: make sure you try everything on before you leave the tailor, esp. if you are new to them.
That is why I am scared to take many things to the tailor. I have a, from what I hear, good tailor close to work that a lot of the guys use for suits and hemming pants. Unclear how good she is for taking in shirts and blazers etc. I actually need to let out the sides of a jacket. Indochino got a little too girly on me and the sides are super tapered. Unclear how as my first suit was almost perfect at the sides.
Yep, I always tailor my shirts. My tailor takes in the sides and slims the arms. It’s amazing how many guys don’t know that this is an option. I’ve always wondered who these barrel-shaped people are that the designers size their shirts for.
But what about when you sit down? Then your stomach (no matter how small), is bursting against the tight fabric in the midsection. Or is there something I’m missing?
you answered your own question Bro. Its made for the mass market, like OnlyShawn stated, we are the minority, other guys actually like the blousy look becasue they think they are more comfortable in their clothes…I cant for the life of me understand how its comfortable to be swimming in clothes that look like your big and fatter brother gave to you…
Gracias, Gentleman, for being the begining of what hopefully will be a very dapper end in America. Sincererly, Tired of Seeing Sloppy Styles
Dude go to the THRIFT STORE…you can have anything taken in as long as they fit in the correct spots. with dress shirts, it only needs to really fit at the shoulders’ seam. If it lands on your shoulder blade your in business, you can do anything else to the shirt you desire….take in shorten, narrow sleeves…
You can bypass the expense of tailoring by first trying Express For Men “fitted” long sleeve dress shirts. They look awesome. I think this post is probably the best one I’ve read on this site. Many guys at the office look sloppy and this is a simple exercise to fix it.
Glad you like the post. As far as measurements go, I’ve been meaning to make a standard page that can be referenced with all that. Should have it up on the site next week…
I’ll tell Mrs. Dappered you don’t like her choice in paint. (Looks better in person, funny… that room is by far the room we get the most compliments on)
“slim fit? what, is that like skinny jeans? I ain’t no homo hipster! gimme twice the fabric!” (you must then spit tobacco juice on the floor)
As much as I wear them, the problem with the 1MX (it has a few: http://dappered.com/2011/04/the-damn-express-1mx-addiction-getting-your-fix-for-28-44/ ) Is that since they don’t come in neck and sleeve measurements, they’re a real hard fit when it comes to, wait for it, the neck and sleeve. I’m a medium in the 1MX, but I just about pass out from restricted blood flow to my head when I button the top button. So a medium in the body fits perfect, but the collar just isn’t enough for my non pencil neck. Collar extenders tend to show on those too.
these shots really are remarkable; tailors should use them as promo materials. That red mini check makes you look…well…like a fatass in the first pic, then you go ahead and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF in the second.
I’ve got the doubleplusgood going on: losing weight (-40lbs in 4 months) and wearing more fitting clothes. Killin’ it.
Also, for those of you who don’t know: Honey Badger Don’t Give a Shit!
I’ve been tailoring my shirts for a while now. Being on the thin side with normal to broad shoulders, most mediums fit everywhere but in the body and sleeves. Thrift stores do come in handy as others have mentioned.
I’ve even been known to add a dart or two in the back.
I actually haven’t noticed that. But I also have weirdly wide lats, wings almost, so maybe they’re filling up that space?
Not necessarily though. I’m sure most men would like a slimmer profile and a more modern fit when wearing a dress shirt.
Granted, us Dappered readers are bit more keen and aware of the shortcomings in OTR shirting, but that’s not to say most men wouldn’t say “Gee, that looks better” if the shirt was more tailored to begin with.
Now, I know fit varies – that’s a separate issue. A shirt either fits or it doesn’t. But reducing baggy arms and ballooning waistlines would be universally embraced in my opinion, and possibly cheaper to produce. Very little comfort is sacrificed by the end user as well.
It’s a really no-brainer to me, I just think the shirt companies are lazy and embracing inertia.
Agreed with MaxMan6. Also, maybe since you’re so tall and thin, give the Express 1MX in Extra Slim a try? They don’t make the best dress shirt, and unless they’re on sale (they go on sale quite a bit) they’re just too damn expensive… but maybe worth a shot?
That’s… I don’t know, never experienced that. Are you hunching over a little when you sit?
Congrats on the weight loss. As far as the shots, yeah, tailoring makes a difference. The quick and dirty way to get the same effect though? Wear an extremely well tailored blazer. All the time.
The fitted Express shirts really do fit me like a glove (even the sleeves, which apparently are too short on some).
“I just think the shirt companies are lazy and embracing inertia.” hmm…doesn’t fit with a profit-maximizing view of the world. If corporations exist with a view to maximizing profit, and if there’s profit to be made in slim fit shirt, they should sell them more often. As they don’t, for the majority of production runs, that says to me that there *isn’t* more money to be made in slim-fits.
Demand drives; the average customer gets what he wants all the time in a relatively free market. Move off of the bell curve average, and you have a harder time finding what you want, or paying more for it as you’re not getting the benefits of mass production and extreme division of labor.
/pedant
Yeah, good question.
Joe G., you need to realize that the “average” consumer is fat.
Joe, now I know why I enjoy following your recommendations so much. Not necessary for the content every time, but because you and I are damn near the exact same size. Looking at picutres of you is almost like looking in a mirror.
I have orangutan arms, though – I need 35 sleeves.
And yes, I definitely have my shirts tailored.
Express is actually having a sale right now with the 1mx shirts; buy 1 get one 50% off.
In addition, you could stack with the printable coupon http://www.express.com/assets/cms/coupons/07/coupon-80-off-HomePage.pdf
or use code 1508 for online purchaseswww.express.com
One shirt basically comes out to be around $35ish.
So, if you’re looking for the 1mx shirts and have an express store near you it might be something worth checking out if don’t want to spend extra on shipping or if you need to figure out your size since these shirts can be very tight for some people.
BTW Joe does some awesome reviews here:http://dappered.com/tag/express-1mx/
cheers!
I’ve been experimenting with tailoring recently and just got the taper to most of my chino’s perfected. Haven’t taken the plunge to getting shirts done yet. I just haven’t been able to justify in my mind spending 15 more bucks on a shirt I probably already spent 20-30 bucks on. Luckily I was fortunate to take a trip to china a year ago and got some custom shirts made dirt cheap (15 bucks a pop!). So happy with the fit I pretty much tossed all my old flying squirrel dress shirts out.
i think that is the work of a bad tailor, you should never have “bursting fabric”
I think what you consider “fat” is very subjective, and I would disagree the “fat” is the average. Joe said he is considered “normal” (read: average) and I’m sure he would be very appalled if someone called him “fat” (I would be too).
I think there’s a couple of factors here: the first is that, as a company looking to maximize profits, a shirt-making brand will want to create a design that will fit a wide range of consumers, from thin to normal to… “fat”. By using a design that “fits” a wide variety of body types, it expands its consumer base for that particular product (not to mention the cost savings of higher mass production). Slim fits are more exclusive in terms of a consumer base, therefore, they will (arguably) bring in less of a profit – which is why they are usually more expensive.
The other factor, which has also been mentioned above, is a combination of perceived “comfort” from baggy clothing and… well… not knowing any better (whether it’s complacency with the status quo or not being aware of how it should fit).
I think that is more of on the tight side of the line between skintight and fitted/tailored…
Read my post again. The demand isn’t necessarily there, even though it should and could be.
Of course businesses are profit driven, but they also operate with the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality. The fundamental difference? We think it’s broken, they don’t and most customers don’t realize it is. Hence, capitalizing on the apathy of their consumer base.
I see the “average” male – fat, normal, slim whatever you consider it to be is unimportant – absolutely swimming in their dress shirt.
Even heavy set men don’t need the extra arm or waist fabric a good majority of the time.
If OTR shirts fit the average consumer like a glove, you’d be making a fair point. But they don’t.
One other question: have you tried this with a short sleeve shirt? They look terribly nerdy when they’re not trim, and I haven’t seen a truly trim short sleeve button-up, especially where the sleeves are concerned. Would love to see the results!
I’ll admit, I never tried to tailor a shirt. However, slim fit works for me (especially Nordstrom and Abboud). At 240lbs, it probably shouldn’t, so I guess I understand the smaller man’s frustration in that regard. “Slim/tailored/custom fit” rarely is all that trim. The manufacturer just cuts the shirt less like a tent. I have NEVER been accused of being slim, yet I can purchase “slim fit” shirts. I understand tailoring can make all the difference (even for the bigger man), but if you find the right brand, I don’t think it’s a necessity.
How’s the quality of those shirts?
I’m contemplating a trip to China… lol.
My tailor turned me on to getting my shirts tailored when I went to pick up my suit and he mentioned how baggy my Arbitrage shirt fit me on the arms and sides (perfect fit, my a$$). After that, almost all of my shirts have been tailored, even my express 1mx polo (small was too short at the arms it still felt baggy at the sides).
Though I may have probably spent the price of my shirt wardrobe about 1/2 over, i think its worth it, especially if you are shorter than, say 5’8″…i noticed this at a cousin’s wedding where a cousin who was the same size dimensions as me looked like he was not only shorter, but looked like he was wearing his father’s clothes by comparison.
They’re holding up pretty good but I’m pretty gentle with them. I harbor no delusions that they’re top quality (or even 100% cotton as the tailor claims) but for the cost you can’t do much better than custom fitwise…
Someone feed that model! 😉
Hey Joe,
Quick question I have gotten a couple shirts tailored and I got the sides, sleeves, and also the 2 slits in the back done. When you get yours tailored are you able to get them that fitted by just taking in the sides?
I am guessing the 2 slits in back are only necessary for someone super skinny like me? I am 5’9″-10″, 137lbs. with 35-36″ chest, 29″ waist, and 31″ hips. I would love to be able to save some money and only do the sides, but it might not be enough for me.
Thanks, Phil
Howdy Phil. Sometimes just the sides, sometimes sides and sleeves, but we’re about the same height only I’m 25-30lbs heavier. Chest is about 3″ bigger, waist at least 2″. I don’t think you’ll be able to go just sides since you’re that slim. You can always give it a shot once and see how it turns out?
Hey Joe….great stuff as usual. Question: when you have the sides and sleeves done do you lose the factory installed seams?
This might be a stupid question, but are you able to shorten the length of sleeves? I bought a Gap shirt that fits great through the torso but is 2 or 3 inches too long in the sleeve. It was on supersale (around $7) so I figured it’d be worth a shot.
Nice post. Unfortunately, my tailor in NYC charges a lot more for this – $25 for bringing in the back part of the shirt, and $50 for anything that involves opening up the sides. Is this normal for NYC?
PS – I believe the difference has to do with whether or not the side seams gets opened or not.
My tailor in SF Bay Area charged the same. Adding darts was an additional $15. I was waiting for a comment that matched my experience! The end result didn’t work as there was a huge bubble in the upper back when all was said and done.
Where do I go to get a $15 shirt tailoring?
My tailor in SF Bay Area charged the same. Adding darts was an additional $15. I was waiting for a comment that matched my experience! The end result didn’t work as there was a huge bubble in the upper back when all was said and done.
Where do I go to get a $15 shirt tailoring?
Right – darts is what I meant. I have to pay $25 for darts, and then an additional $50 for the sides. So I have just been doing darts, which actually works ok, because the shirts I’ve bought (slim fit already) have way too much in the back. The front is not bad.
http://www.tmlewin.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-tmlusd-Site/en_US/Home-Show
^Get their Slim fit shirts and you won’t need a trip to the tailor
Yes, thats great, but as the others are saying for most of us its impossible to get them tailored for 15 bucks. Here in Germany even shortening the sleeves of a jacket is arround 50$. Getting the shirt tailored will be arround the same (ore more), so i can buy another shirt for this. But maybe considerable, to better have one awsome fitting than 2 OK fitting.
I like it – it’s kind of like an unripened avocado.
This is great stuff – as a 6’3-4″ swimmer, I always had a huge drop and it’s so frustrating trying to find affordable shirts that fit my shoulders and arms, but don’t blouse out like a pirate. I finally got a couple of shirts tailored last summer, I really need to get the rest of them in there too.
Don’t forget the importance of darts. Adding darts to the back of the shirt will get rid of the nasty extra fabric spewing out of your pants above your ass. This is something that taking in the sides cannot accomplish for many of us. Hunt sales right and score a $55 shirt with good fabric and buttons, add $35 in tailoring (darts, sides, sleeves) and you have the one heck of a nice shirt. Since the nordstrom wrinkle free was mentioned in this article I will throw out that I have one and have not been overly impressed with. tailoring is more difficult on the wrinkle free fabrics, and they have an unnatural sheen. Fit is king, but no one said its easy.
I also would like to know — from Joe or anyone — whether your tailor will retain the serge seams (lap-fell folded and double stitched, as shirts come from the factory) when taking in the sides. I have not been able to find a tailor who will do that. All of them insist that they can only create a single-stitched side seam, with the two pieces of fabric butterflied out and ironed flat, rather than folded over each other.
Is this the solution to side-seam tailoring — to lose the original factory seam? Or is there something I’m missing?
If the shirt just needs a small adjustment, a tailor can throw two darts (the slits) in the back. If you tried to take up all that fabric, the front would be too wide and stretch all the way around the sides.
For shirts that need a lot taken in, they can really hack at the sides to pull evenly from the front and back. If you have extra room in the chest, they can run the darts all the way up to the top in the back, sort of like a pleat, to snug it up higher too.
Yes. But I’m mesmerized by how perfectly it can match the original seams. If they put darts in alone, they wouldn’t mess with the side seams, but if they cut fabric out in the sides, they would be new seams altogether.
The tailor I have gone to charged me $25 to take in the body of the shirt and taper down the sleeves. A bit expensive I think, but I did it anyways since I was there. After reading other comments I am definitely going to look for another tailor as I have half a dozen or more shirts that needs tailoring.
Tailoring your shirts is what separates the men from the boys. I recently had my shirts tailored and people started asking me if I lost weight.
I’ve found that the problem with most slim cut or super slim shirts is they are way to tight in the shoulders but fit well along the side. After living in Europe for a few years I have noticed American’s tend to have broader shoulders and thus tailoring is essential for a shirt to fit right. I’m just waiting for someone to move beyond the neck/length sizing system and go for shoulder/torso.
I can’t find ANYWHERE local that will tailor a shirt for less than $25. I would do it myself but I don’t have a sewing machine – if it were cheaper, all of my shirts would be tailored already!
Express makes the most wrinkly non-iron shirts.
Thanks for this Classic repost. I really need to get my “slim” shirts tightened up and decide whether to invest in my old “classic” cut shirts.
But how do you keep your shirts properly tucked in as you move about your day? Shirt garters the only option?
It’s about time I get a tailor.
If you can get there, China is an absolute gold mine for custom tailoring! I was in Beijing for a month during the 2008 Olympics and we found a great tailor in a market called Ya Show. Select the fabric and get measured, 2 days later a fitting, 2 days later pick up your purchasaes (and that was without a ‘rush’ put on the order!)
Two suits, 3 dress shirts and 6 ties for $250. All have withstood 5-10 wears per year since and remain in great shape. Can’t wait to get back this fall and re-up!
Personally, I think the before and after pics are too different to really tell a difference… :/
The average obese American, who else?
I used to live in Dallas, TX and my go-to tailor was a scholarly gentlemen whose fair prices were only surpassed by his sartorial talent.
Fast forward to now. I recent took a job in a new city, and I am still looking for a good tailor. I found a guy downtown and he did good work, but he was really expensive. I’m talking $20 for one shirt. ONE shirt. Let me briefly stop before I go on: I am in no way trying to be racist, sexist or agist by the following comment. The only tailor options within 20 miles of my house are asian women between the ages of 60 to 70. Are any of these viable options?
Like I said, this comment could be seen as the trifecta of douchbag-ery. But my concern is, is an elderly asian woman up on the current men’s style? Will one of these give me a good cut?
I also wait for deals on shirts to save money for tailoring. I have to tailor all of my slim fit shirts. It makes a huge difference and I feel fantastic wearing the tailored shirts too. Well worth $15.
I think the industry needs to start doing away with all this extra fabric. They need to convert the current slim fit shirt to a regular fit, and actually create a slim fit shirt! They are getting closer to giving the consumer what they need, but they are not there yet.
Exactly my point! Totally agree. If a 240 lb dude is wearing a slim fit, the industry has a problem with how they fit their clothing! I agree that a slim fit shirt on a bigger guy basically IS tailoring it.
I’m on the bigger side as well, and a ‘classic’ cut or whatever it’s called looks like a tent on me; I’ve never seen a slim fit shirt in my neck size, I struggle to find anything with an 18.5 inch neck that’s not big and tall.
I’m hooked on Ratio clothing now – not completely custom, but the shirts are far more tailored, and I can get a much more precise fit (18.25 neck, for example). I own several, and I can recommend them for service and quality.
My tailor charges me about $25-30 for taking in the side seams and arms. $15-20 just to dart the back, so I know what you mean.
I don’t know how you guys manage to pull off that look. After sitting up and down for a few times, all my close fitting shirts look like the first picture.
Anyone else have the experience of the tailor preferring to shorten the sleeve from the cuff rather than from the shoulder? I’ve been to several places who prefer to do it this way, so I kinda gave up in finding a place to do it from the shoulders assuming that it was just not the way to do it.
There’s a few of those custom shirting websites where you can basically get a shirt for the same price as you would for buying a slim shirt then adding the tailoring cost. Besides reviving my old shirts like Joe did, does anyone see a benefit from buying new shirts if you absolutely know you’ll have to tailor them, as opposed to just ordering custom in the first place?
The coupon you referenced expired over a year ago but thanks for the tip.
Hey Joe S. where did you go in Dallas? I need to find a new one.
Every dress shirt I wear to court… tailored.
Anyone know of some good tailors in NYC? i’ve tried a bunch of them, but most of them ruin my shirts… every tailor that i go to, always does a sloppy job, by just running it through the sewing machine on the sides and flipping it inside out… i once went to a tailor that actually does do top stitching..
This is what i have been trying to find as well. My old tailor from home use to be able to do this, top stitching, and looks factory cut and sewed. I dont like how when i take my shirt to get tailored, they just sticks some pins in flip it inside out, and sew it along the lines. It looks terrible and gets creased up..
His comment was posted over a year ago
oh boy . . .
I’m tall slim and have long arms…tailoring is my friend….I have a great tailor in NC that works magic on everything. For example I can sift through blazers at a thrift shop and pick the 1 out of 100 that is actually worth owning, pay the $5 or whatever and proceed to my tailor to get it nipped and tucked. I got the most gorgeous wool herringbone sport coat this spring using exactly this method. you can look very expensive with spending a lot sometimes.
He posted that over a year ago.
I’m 6’3″-6’4″ and any shirt that’s long enough for my arms generally fits like a tent, so getting shirts tailored was the best thing I ever did sartorially. I can’t believe I waited so long to do it. Take the plunge – it’s really not that expensive at all.
Where do these $15/shirt tailor exist? Anyone have their NYC tailor they can recommend? Thanks in advance, guys.
Are you me!? 6′ with 36/37 arm!
Get mine off a guy in Ireland http://www.shirtbyhand.ie/ -they can send you measuring instructions if you drop them an email and you can design the shirt online,pretty cool and really good quality!!
Check out SleeveLinks… you can tailor your clothes at home in seconds.
Because almost any shirt off the rack is “bunchy” at the waist and looks not good so we have to get tailored shirt