What needs to fit first – Your suit fit by priority
Originally Published 11/5/2010
Above: Calvin Klein BODY Charcoal Solid Slim Fit – $550.00
Given the option of wearing a $1,000 suit that’s too big, or a $170 suit from a clearance rack that’s been tailored to fit you perfectly, take the bargain option every single time. Having a tailor and knowing how your suit should fit exponentially increases its value. Some areas of how your suit fits do have a little margin for error, but there are also areas where it absolutely must fit perfectly, period. If those zero-tolerance areas are off? No matter how big the discount, leave it on the rack. Here’s half a dozen areas to pay attention to when buying a suit and getting it tailored, ranked by fit importance.
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1. The Shoulders
Funny how the foundation of your suit is actually at the top. It has to fit in the shoulders off the rack because it’s one of the few places on a suit that even the best tailors can’t alter. If the shoulders are too big you’ll look swallowed and weak. The old trick is to put the jacket on, stand next to a wall, and slowly lean your shoulder into it. Your shoulder and the pad need to hit at precisely the same time. If the pad hits first and scrunches up? Too big. Also, the height of the shoulder pads minimal. You’re not a linebacker. NOTE: Good call by Tarun and Chase C. in the comments to remind everyone to be choosy about armholes. You want higher ones that move with your rotator cuff. Holes that drop too far down will pull on the body of the jacket every time you shake someone’s hand. Not all designers have caught on, and many are still producing traditionally low armholes. High ones are hard to find. For more, try this post.
2. The Jacket Waist
The sack suit is dead. Thankfully. The fabric from your armpits through your torso should NOT MAKE A STRAIGHT VERTICAL LINE. It needs to dart in. It’s the difference between looking like James Bond or Barrel Man. Lots of jackets come pre tapered, but even then 95% of the time it won’t fit your waist perfectly off the rack. So even if you think it does? Take it to your tailor anyway and have them pin you up. You might be surprised. Use the hug test to see if it’s too small or too fitted. Button it, then pretend like you’re going to hug someone (and warn your tailor if you’re going to use them as a test subject). If you feel like you’re going to rip a back seam with the embrace, it’s too tight.
3. The Pant Break
See that dent where the fabric kinks in on the pic up and to the right? That’s the “break.” It’s the wrinkle that’s caused around the shin by the bottom of the pant leg hitting the top of the shoe. No break is no kink… stick straight while standing with the bottom of the legs just barely hitting the tops of your shoes. Having zero pant break is like wearing skinny jeans, but some guys swear by both. Having your tailor leave an inch or so of break is like wearing 501s. Fitted but not skinny. Nowhere near baggy. Can’t go wrong with that.
4. The Jacket Length
It’s one of the two components that make up most jacket sizes (40 Regular, 40 Short, or 40 Long for example) but it’s not nearly as important as the shoulder size. Adjusting the length of the jacket requires far too much reconstruction on the part of the tailor, so you want to get it right off the rack. Another old trick: Put the jacket on, and with your arms relaxed at your sides curl your fingers up like you’re holding a pair of wheelbarrow handles. The jacket tail should come to rest right in the valley your hands are making. But some would dispute that.
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5. The Jacket Sleeve
The idea is to show a half inch or so of shirt cuff when your arms are hanging at your side. But that’s easier said than done on a lot of jackets. It’s like a pocket square’s worth of contrast at your wrists. Always nice to have, but if you can’t adjust, say… a cheap blazer because of the buttons? It’s not the end of the world. You should be able to get this done on your suits. Just don’t go so friggin’ short that when you’re driving your entire shirt cuff is showing and your jacket sleeves are riding up. I’ve got one of those. Not fun.
6. The Pant Waist
Here’s the deal. A suit = pants + jacket. Belts are made to keep your pants from falling off your waist. Your tailor should be able to bring your pants in to the point where they’re comfortable, hitting your hips just so, and you don’t need a belt to awkwardly cinch and rumple your pants to your midsection. The jacket will hide your belt anyway. Go beltless, watch what you eat, maintain your weight, and you’ll look more streamlined.
Agreements, disagreements, and additions should all go in the comments section below…
Great guide agree on all points. I chuckle when I see a guy in a suit that is 2x too big, another jos a bank or mens warehouse customer.
@joe – you really should take your jacket off and hang it in the back seat when driving. one easy way to increase time between trips to dry cleaners to press your suit.
Agreed. I’m 5’10” and used to wear jos bank and Brooks Bros. The regulars were too long and the shorts were too short. I always erred on the regular size and as a result always felt like I’m wearing daddy’s clothes.
So my first Indochino suit arrives in about a week. Based on what the internets tell me, this suit should likely address this problem. Fingers crossed.
I thought beltless was a no. But I’m happy to hear that its not.
@will: Just my opinion, but beltless isn’t a no. On the other hand, wearing a belt isn’t a “no” either. I think it’s fine both ways. If it’s a business meeting? I almost always wear a belt. If I’m going out, flying, etc? I usually skip the belt.
No belt? Really? I can’t get behind that. It just looks sloppy to me. Though, great points about pants fitting properly without a belt. I think most people will expect you to be wearing a belt and so even if you’re going for modern minimalist, you’re just going to look sloppy or forgetful at best, to most people.
cheers for this Joe, great article.
But I think I have the problem that shoulders for me seem too big, and yet if I get a smaller size it feels too tight across the chest/back/arms! Not sure how I manage this.. Have you any recommendations for this?
Also, I don’t think I could find it in any of your other articles, but how much would you be comfortable paying for alterations? I’m wanting to get my suit tailored for the first time, but don’t know what prices would rip me off, and which prices might not inspire much confidence in the tailor/alteration maker (i.e. for being too cheap!). Specifically for shortening sleeves and taking in the jacket waist. I’m in London (UK) so I imagine things may be different, but I have one place offering sleeve shortening for £13 and jacket waisting for £25, and another with sleeve shortening from £22 and jacket waisting needing to see the jacket before quoting..
So where should the end of the jacket sleeve reach ideally? At the wrist? 1/4′ before the wrist?
Also, I would make a mention about higher arm holes.
@tef: Do you wear a belt with a tux? Does that look sloppy? I get what you’re saying, totally. And wearing a belt is never the wrong move. But it’s just unnecessary weight. And unless those belt holes are dead on perfect, it’s either going to be just a touch too big, or just a touch too tight. That gets annoying to me as the day wears on. I’d rather let my watch and pockets square do the talking.
I’ve always thought if you have belt loops, wear a belt. If you don’t, I think it looks a bit odd. I mean, they’re there… they should be filled, I think. However, side-tab pants that are trim, and have no belt loops really make it clear that you intend to go beltless, and then I think it works, and rather well I might add, especially in the summer. Just my thoughts, though!
Cheers,
Ben
Great job. I appreciate the tips as far as fitting goes.
I tend to use suits for all they’re worth when I’m in one, which usually means a pocket square in the jacket and a belt in the pants. Saying belts only have a functional use seems to go against the logic of a pocket square, which is really only there to add something extra. Belts can be seen the same aesthetic way, I think, though I’m a big believer in the idea that they can be easily over thought. That $20 Alfani dress belt featured a while back has been versatile enough for any situation I’ve found myself in.
This is article is just what i needed. I have a question for you guys.
Got my first Indochino suit the other day. Tried it on, and overall it fits better than anything else i’ve ever had. But a few things are bugging me.
Where should the jacket waist dart in? Mine is hitting me in the middle of my ribs, not down on my actual waist. I feel like the shape looks a little odd because of that. The jacket could possibly be an inch longer, but i doubt that would fix the 3–4 inch difference in the waist height.
I’d like to second Tarun’s request for a mention about arm holes. I have a few jackets that fitted right when I’m just standing around, but when raising my arm to drive, it pulls the jacket up and the sleeve back.
Good article.
That Topman jacket in item # 4 looks silly. The “cupping your hands” rule is a good guide for jacket length, however a jacket MUST completely cover your butt IMO.
Another area of fit is the jacket collar. I see a lot of people who would benefit by having the collar of the jacket lowered to show more shirt collar and eliminate puckering across the back.
Good call Tarun and Chase. Updated for anyone who stumbles across the site for the first time. High armholes will be one of the first things I look at when my Indochino arrives.
@Jeremiah and other Indochino customers – post some pics on the styleforum page and ppl will critique your fit.
@Brad. Thanks, i can do that. But i was just looking for a quick rule of thumb. Perhaps there isn’t one for the jacket waist?
Joe, wouldn’t your naked belt line show when you unbutton your jacket to sit down? I’m not against the idea (even like the idea of going against convention) but I disagree that the jacket would hide the fact that you’re not wearing one.
@Brad and @Jeremiah: Oh yes they will critique your fit. Ad nauseam. Lotttttta snobs on there. Some great guys too. But lottttta snobs.
Yeah, I guess it would. But if someone goes: “OH MY GOD HE’S NOT WEARING A BELT!!!” when I sit down, then I think there are bigger issues at hand 🙂 Checkout the pics for the Indochino Navy or Light Gray. In each pic lineup, the guy’s not wearing a belt. And… I don’t think it’s really that noticeable if at all. I think a belt would detract from that sharp of a suit (in my opinion.) I think it’s a younger, slimmer, more fit look for sure. It’s not like I’m advocating wearing a suit without, say… a shirt.
Evidence that wearing a suit without a belt is not batsh#t crazy: Exhibit A, Exhibit B (left image), Exhibit C…
@ Joe:
I’m eagerly awaiting the full scoop when your Indochino arrives! Which one did you order and how did you spec it out? Higher armholes and natural shoulders with slim notch and two back vents? Did you go with the ticket pocket?
Cheers,
Ben
Joe,
How much should suit alterations cost from an above average tailor? Ball park?
Oh, and are Topman suits a no no? I’m thin, but not Topman skinny. I’ve ordered ties from them before (great shopping experience) but never delved past accessories. Are their clothes so slim cut they’re unwearable?
@Joe G: I got an old “traditional” suit brought up to “modern” standards recently (legs tapered and hemmed, jacket brought in, jacket sleeves shortened, even had to have the bottom of the jacket raised a bit). My tailor did an excellent job. She is a eastern european lady in her 50s with a heavy accent working out of a hole-in-the-wall shop smaller than my bedroom. The whole thing (and that’s a lot, I’d say) cost under $100 if I remember correctly. That was a heavy duty job not for the feint of heart and she turned an old almost unusable suit into a good backup suit.
I also bought a nice modern J.Crew Ludlow suit earlier in the summer. I had her bring the jacket in, raise the sleeves a bit, and hem the pants slightly. I think that was around 60-70ish.
I think her prices are pretty reasonable. It may be more from a tailor in or around a city, but don’t be afraid to try a hole-in-the-wall place. They could very well end up being the best in the area with the most reasonable prices.
I curious if any of the blog readers have purchased suits off Overstock.com. There seem to be some good deals out there. Adding tailoring fees to an inexpensive suit still keeps the pricing relatively OK.
@Joe G: It’s really hard to say. Depends on what you’re having done, and where you’re having it done. But I think Bryan’s comment is a good foundation to work off of. When I get a suit worked on (pants, taken in at waist… sometimes jacket sleeves) it usually runs me around $50 – $60. But I have a great relationship with my tailor.
@John: I have. My current navy go-to suit is a Kenneth Cole New York I got off Overstock for $100. No lie. Looks terrific. But I wouldn’t stray too far from well known brands you’ve tried on before. And stick with 100% wool. No synthetic stuff.
A kitten dies every time you wear a suit without a belt. Bet you never thought one little comment about belts would raise this much concern, eh?
@Jeremiah. This is probably 3 months too late but, the rule of thumb that I go by is the jacket should taper to its thinnest point where the main button is (the top button of a 2 button suit, the middle button of a 3 button suit.) As you mentioned above, the darts are/were hitting you in the ribs. This may have been due to the button placement. The main button should be at the exact halfway point between the top of the jacket (top of shoulders/bottom of collar) and the hem (bottom part of jacket.) This is information I read on various websites (my apologies that I forgot which ones.) I hope this helps.
The issue of to wear a belt or not to wear a belt has always bugged me. This is especially true with suits with a very light fabric. I always feel odd if I leave the belt behind, but I must admit it looks a lot better.
The point of wearing a suit (matching pant and blazer) is to elongate your body. A belt splits you into two, ruining that effect, which is why some recommend going beltless.
An issue I’ve had since I really got into the idea of how my clothes should fit me is finding a good (if possible great) tailor. It’s easier when you live in a big, far more fashion conscious city like L.A., New York, Frisco. How can someone like me, a guy who lives in a small town south of Sacramento Ca, find one. Would YELP be a good place. Maybe you guys should create a yelp type of section for great stores, tailors, dry cleans throughout the country. Or I should,
YELP is where I found my tailor in Santa Clara (an 4-star Italian whose been doing it since ’66.) You may have to search a bit for the good ones. I’d ask people whom you may notice at a party who has a great fitting suit on. I will say from experience that not all towns come equipped. For example, there are ZERO dry cleaners in the town where my parents live in Soledad, CA. Why? Because the best job out there is working for the Prison and they have their own internal dry cleaning.
@Joe: I wear suspenders with my tux and a belt with my suit. I might also wear braces with the suit depending on the suit (3-piece more likely than a 2-piece).
A kitten dies every time dorks like you say dumb shit. Belts are out. Try wearing trousers without belt loops and only suspenders if you really wanna be cool. It’s all about being different. Extremely slim fit is out too. All you guys are about 5 years late wearing your shit like that.
simply put. If you have belt loops, fucking wear a belt or else you look dumb.
I think the belt loops do make it look a little “I forgot to put my belt on today.” I’d be interested to see a loopless suit worn without a belt. High degree of difficulty but could be pulled off well.
Suits look better when wearing a belt. Suspenders are still not in.