Some questions are better answered publicly since others might be asking the same thing, or, one of you has the perfect answer. If you’ve got a style tip, question, or anything else you’d like to pass along, you can send those in here. If you’d rather your question not be featured in a future mailbag, just go ahead and say so in your email. Feel free to hit the comments with other options for answers to this most recent batch of questions. Top Photo Credit: Tracy O.
Q: A Cordovan Shoe Conundrum
I’m saving up for a pair of shell Cordovans from Alden. I’m trying to decide between the cap-toe boots via jcrew, or these penny loafers at Barneys. Which would you choose? – Buddy
WHOA. You sure you meant to send this into Dappered? Maybe you were looking for our luxury site, Splurgered? (Note: 1. We do not have a luxury site. 2. If we did, that domain name sounds a little too… explicit?) All kidding aside, Shell Cordovan is desired by some for it’s incredible durability, so Buddy’s looking to make a long term investment here. But what about skipping the Cordovan and getting both a dress boot + loafer in regular ol’ cow? The Fifth Street from Allen Edmonds is starting to dry up online (it was a closeout style in the winter) but you can still get em’ through Nordstrom. You’d then still have plenty of cash left for the super sleek “Abe” from Jack Erwin. Those are gonna look pretty slick with, say, a grey linen suit come spring. And compared to the Cordovans, those two pairs would leave you with almost $100 left post-purchase. No? You still want… Okay. Get the boots.
Q: Thoughts on Charles Tyrwhitt shirts?
What do you think about Charles Tyrwhitt Shirts? I recently ordered a few and I’ve got to say that I was impressed with the quality. Shipping took a little while, but when they did arrive, I was really pleased. Thoughts? – Mark
Mark nailed it in terms of the shipping times. Seems like CT can take a while to get from them to you. That and you’ve got to play the sale game, or, be willing to buy in bulk (4 shirts for $199, etc…) They’ve got a bit of a Jos. A. Bank marketing style going on (ridiculous MSRP, constant sales), and a lot of us automatically tune that out. But the quality is quite nice if you can land them for $30 – $50. Probably on par with Nordstrom’s house or upgraded John W. Nordstrom line. Thing is… Nordstrom ships fast and free (CT = $9.95), and returns are free as well. So while I personally own one CT shirt and like it, I seem to stick to Nordstrom, Banana Republic, Target, and Ratio or Ledbury for splurges. UPDATE: Check out the comments for many a Charles Tyrwhitt fan. Plenty of happy customers out there.
Q: Matching Metals when it comes to Accessories
What are your thoughts on matching accessory metal colors? Specifically, I only own/wear all silver (watch, belt buckle, tie clip, etc.), but I’m looking at getting a pair of gold AO aviators
This is a little like matching leathers. The more likely you are to have more of something, the more effort you should put into making it match. For example, shoes, watch strap, & belt leathers should be close in color. But you don’t have to match your briefcase to your shoes. If you did, that means you’d have to have a bunch of different briefcases. And then all of a sudden, you’ve got as many briefcases as a woman has purses. Sunglasses are kinda like briefcases. Most of us have a pair or two that we really like, and not any more. Wear your gold aviators with whatever. If someone gives you a hard time, grab em’ by the flight suit and tell them you will fire when you’re goddamn good and ready. YOU GOT THAT??
Q: What do you mean by “Fulfilled” by Amazon?
Seems like when Dappered points to something on Amazon, usually a watch, the word “fulfilled” gets mentioned. What do you mean by that? – Greg
That’s a really good question. It all comes down to risk analysis. If a purchase is “fulfilled” by Amazon, that means another company (a 3rd party) is selling the item. Not Amazon. Yet, and this is important, Amazon is taking care of the shipping and returns. Say company XYZ sells watches, but they don’t want to mess with storing them in a warehouse, slapping labels on them, then shipping them out. They hire Amazon to do that for them. The nice part about this is that Amazon has skin in the game. Amazon’s return process is pretty painless, and the last thing they want to do is to be moving fakes or pre-owened/dinged up timepieces. But know that just because it’s ON Amazon, doesn’t mean Amazon sells, or even fulfills it. You gotta look for the “sold by” or “fulfilled by” Amazon notation.
In the above example, the same model of Hamilton Watch is being sold & fulfilled by Amazon, then sold for less but not fulfilled by Amazon. I’d personally spend the extra $15 to make sure Amazon was fulfilling this thing. The 3rd party seller might be an Angel, but unless you know for sure, be careful. It’s also good to know that many brands won’t recognize a manufacture’s warranty unless you’ve purchased the item through an authorized seller. And that often doesn’t include Amazon. You’ve got to weigh protection vs. cost.
Q: Monkstraps are played out. Go ahead and defend them.
I know there’s a few people who give you a hard time in the comments for featuring Monk Straps so much. Beth even wrote a column about it. So why do you keep featuring them? – Jeff
Oh, you mean pilgrim shoes? I kid. Look, just because a trend became over-saturated and has since pulled back, doesn’t mean it can’t stick for some and still look really, really good. Monk straps combine the overall shape of a traditional dress shoe, yet they lose the laces. Some loafers can look downright frumpy. Yet monks are dressed up. That hybrid is perfect for the sharp-casual / dressed down business wear world many of us exist in. They look great with jeans/chinos & a blazer. If you’re wearing a suit tieless, monk straps can prevent the “he just took his tie off” look. They are the middle of the Venn Diagram. Not too casual, not too dressed up.
Q: Peak or Notch Lapel for the first suit(s)?
I’m looking to upgrade from an old, ill fitting suit, to a couple of new, more tailored looking suits. My quesiton is, should I go with a notch lapel? Peak Lapel? One of each? – Wes
If this is going to be the one suit in your collection, or the two suits to build a foundation on, stick with notch. They’re just easier to work with. Peak lapels are a little flashier, and draw more attention. Also, lapel width is sort of like hemline length on women’s skirts. They expand and contract with the times. Notch lapels seem to hide those shifts in popularity better than the slightly more showy peak lapels. That said, if you ever decide to buy your own tux, favor a peak lapel.
Got a question or a style tip? Send them in here. Additional answers to the above questions can go in the comments.
I wear a suit every day to work and have been searching for the best cheap dress shirt for a while and I think CT nailed it. Always surprised they don’t get more love here. They put a code in the Financial Times about once a quarter where you can get shirts for $40 and often free shipping (no min.) which I will post next time it comes around. Definitely better fit size wise (can order actual size instead of just S,M,L) and also a better cut in the extra slim fit, even better than the slim Ledbury that I own. Better quality than Nord, BR and Target imo as well and comes with brass collar stays.
I’d just like the post a different opinion for Tyrwhitt. They form a big chunk of my shirt wardrobe.
Their shirts are great, especially for the price, I usually get them shipped very quickly, and, yes, four for $200 is worth it. Especially when you’re building or upgrading your wardrobe.
Beyond that, their real sales can work well. Sometimes you’ll get a shirt and a tie for $50 with free shipping.
Please, PLEASE read this jarring expose about the Fulfilled By Amazon program, and the lack of integrity Amazon seems to have with it. Amazon can basically tell you your goods are counterfeit (with no proof), charge you to return/destroy your products that you already own, and step aside when the legal system comes for you.
(Maybe this only applies to digital media, but it’s jarring nonetheless the way sellers are treated).
http://www.startupnation.com/start-your-business/plan-your-business/third-party-sellers-need-to-rethink-theamazon-fba-program/
I buy my shirts exclusively from Charles Tyrwhitt these days. I switched from Brooks Brothers about two years ago and I don’t regret the change. The fit of the CT shirts is better. The finish of the Brooks Brothers shirts is better. The customer service at Charles Tyrwhitt is better.
I love CT shirts, the collars are great, and the materials and patterns are spot on. Problem is, they don’t make their Extra Slim Fit shirts in my size 15/35. They have the option to do “custom” sleeve lengths, but oddly enough, they still don’t offer it in the size I need. I emailed a customer rep, and they told me they don’t have enough requests to carry 15/35. I’m a trim dude and anything else gets blousey. For that reason, I have to get my shirts from BB or Nordstrom’s Calibrate or 1901. Oh, and my brother gets to rub it in every time he wears his CT’s. Dammit.
This is just me personally, but when I finally decide I don’t care about money enough to buy a pair of Aden’s, I’m NOT going to waste it on a penny loafers.
(I do have to hand it to Joe, though. Those Jack Erwin’s are the ONLY penny loafers I’ve ever found attractive, and they do look hella-sexy)
If you are looking at Alden’s, even if you could have those two other shoes, I think you would always hold some resentment at not getting them. So I would say go ahead and do it.
It seems like these are a well-planned splurge, not a staple, since you aren’t deciding between more conservative options you could wear to work a few times a week. So ask yourself what you currently wear more often…or what you want to realistically build your wardrobe around, boots or penny loafers, and go with those. You spend this much on shoes…you wear those shoes!
So I work for a company who sells on Amazon, both through regular channels and as a seller for our own company. We have not yet worked with fulfilled by Amazon (FBA). FBA basically involves us shipping a large number of pieces to Amazon, who then speeds the shipping process. We have to ship less, the customer gets faster and more reliable shipping, Amazon charges us a nice fee for the service.
The issue with Amazon sellers is that a lot of the time we are saddled with the Amazon system. Yes, it gives us a larger customer base, but those customers also want significantly lower prices and have a drastically higher rate of returns. There are also a LOT of fraudulent sellers. My best recommendation is to buy from a reputable, and if possible direct, seller. We produce our own product but do not do a lot of direct to customer sales, so our Amazon items are actually direct from the factory.
That being said, we can make mistakes, and there is a certain level of compromise with selling through Amazon. We may actually be unable to do certain things because Amazon prevents us. Just like you are dealing with their automated return system being difficult, we have our own version on our end.
Love CT. I’ve slowly migrated and “upgraded” to them over the years, and am lucky enough to have a store in DC if I don’t want to wait weeks to get a shirt. Also, the return policy is unbelievably good if I ever need it.
Wow. That is pretty shocking. It’s obviously just one side of the story, but Amazon isn’t making their side readily available.But it does seem these online retail companies are being very heavy handed in making sure no counterfeit material gets out, but that also sweeps up a lot of innocent people along with it. Hope they deal with this soon.
Another vote for CT shirts. They make up 100% of my work dress shirt wardrobe now. Have been a customer for the past 3 years and have never been disappointed with the fit or the fabrics.
Anyone have a link to those black dub monks in the photo? Nice looking shoe!
Nevermind…I found it…
Allen Edmonds Neumora
It looks like Charles Tyrwhitt is opening a store in downtown Chicago on February 3rd. I will have to check them out.
I have a few CT shirts and have liked them for the price. I usually wait to buy them until there is a sale and I receive a $20 voucher in the mail. My two gripes with them is that you are charged a foreign transaction fee by some credit cards when ordering online from them and even their slimmest fit shirts are still a bit loose a la Banana Republic. I’ve been tempted by their shoes but they seem pretty overpriced and don’t go on sale as steeply as their shirts or ties.
Only ever order CT shirts when they’re on sale (~$30-40 each). At their sale price, they’re far & away the best shirt you can, especially for their extra slim fit. BR, Nordstrom, etc slim fit shirts don’t really come close to having the same fit on me. Plus, the inclusion of metal collar stays is a huge plus.
Hey Buddy,
Get the Alden Boots.
Sincerely,
Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng
I own the Fifth Streets, and the Aldens in shell aren’t in the same league. They both happen to be boots. That’s about the only thing they have in common. If J. Crew ever puts them on sale again, it’s an auto-buy in my opinion.
As for shell loafers, I’ve thought about getting a pair of shell loafers, but if I was going to get them, I’d probably get them MTO from Rancourt. I just don’t really like Alden’s styling on loafers.
If you are just looking for your first pair of shell, call up the Allen Edmonds Shoe Bank, and see what they have in stock in seconds. They have sales occasionally where shell (including Daltons) will be discounted more than 50%. TheShoeMart has Alden seconds (you can get on their list at their website).
Final thought: don’t go cheap on your shoes. Do your homework. Figure out what you want. Buy the pair you want. Wear them. Enjoy them. Get them resoled. Wear them. Enjoy them. Get them resoled. Repeat ad mortem. Buddy, I think you know this — but there are going to be a lot of comments that say: $600 for shoes? Are you nuts?!?
How often do the real sales come about? I think I’m going to pick up one or two at the 50$ MSRP then splurge on another 4 or so once the price per drops to about 30$.
Foreign transaction fee? I’ve ordered from CT many times and never been charged. Are you ordering from their UK or US site?
Thanks for the heads up!
Joe, I agree with you on the quality comparison between CT and Nordstrom. There are two things that keep me coming back to CT instead of Nordstrom, even when the prices are almost the same:
1. The patterns. CT’s patterns tend to be much more…straightforward than Nord’s. For instance, it’s easy to find single color bengal stripes, tattersalls, and ginghams at CT. Looking at Nord’s shirts, they’ve got lots of multi-plaids & stripes.
2. The collar. A simple thing to overlook, but it makes a huge difference…kinda like lapels on a jacket. In my experience, the collars from Nordstrom Trim Fit/John W Nordstrom are larger and more point-y. This isn’t bad, but I prefer CT’s spreads & extreme spreads.
Also worth mentioning that anything “Fulfilled by Amazon” is eligible for Amazon Prime’s free two-day shipping, while other items from third-party sellers are not.
I’m sorry to rain on the CT parade, but I find the sleeves on the ESF shirts to be billowy, bordering on ‘pirate-sleeves.’ Many will disagree with me on the fit, but they measure much wider than BR tailored slim fit sleeves. My first preference is Ratio.
Regarding the JC Alden Cap Toes: Just do it. They’re a style-orgasm in a box.
I always thought shawl was the go-to lapel for a tux, no?
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT!???????????? (***Marks Calendar***)
Big fan of shawl collars myself, but it seems like they’re really come back in style as of late (not that they ever went out of style). Peak lapel on a tux though is something that won’t ever come into or go out of style. It just sorta is. And not in a bad way.
But yes. Shawl. Excellent.
They’re both accepted, from what I’ve seen and read. I see peak lapels most often for awards shows and such.
Mora 2.0 is what you want
Great South Park reference…
Probably depends on your build. I find the sleeves to be fine. I find it somewhat odd the chest sizes are the same on all shirts and not particularly large. As it is CT ESF and SF shirts fit me perfectly, but if I end up adding another inch to my chest they’d probably be unwearable.
Disturbing but not surprised. It’s just like Wal-Mart and Home Depot. You get so large that you start engaging in bully tactics to your suppliers and get everything on your terms. I personally buy a lot from Amazon for convenience but I’m starting to rethink it.
Regarding the lapel choice. I think you’re right about going with the notch, UNLESS the person is a bit bigger in the midsection than the average guy. In that case, I would go with a peak lapel if you can find it. The peak lapels make strong up and out lines that gives the impression of stronger shoulders (obviously, not necessary for an athletic build). As long as the rest of the suit is conservative, solid navy or medium to dark gray (I personally think charcoal or a dark navy is the best first suit, but that’s an opinion and a whole other topic), lapels not to wide or skinny, etc, the overall suit wouldn’t be too flashy.
CT shirts all the way. They have a good selection of patterns and seem to run seasonal clearance deals where shirts are 29-35. Quality of the fabric is nice and the cut of the extra slims is perfect. My last purchase was 2 shirts. Shipping was 3bus days I think. This surprised me as previous orders have taken about 7-10. All in all I’ve been happy with them though.
Seems to be towards the end of seasons. But sizes go quick.
I feel the same way about the sleeves. I love their shirts, but gonna need to reel in the sleeves to get them to be perfect.
“Monkstraps are played out. Go ahead and defend them.” Sounds like this guy has already made up his mind. That’s cool, enjoy my good man. No need to waste time arguing in the face of these types of questions in my opinion. Very well addressed though, I think people forget that while these have gained recent popularity in the #menswear universe, they are actually a very classic, traditional shoe that has been around a very long time (well, like many #menswear-trendy things actually).
Grammar check. “Monk straps combine the overall shape of a traditional dress shoe, yet they lose the laces.
US site. Its a credit card thing. Some don’t have the fee. Buying from ASOS or even Frank and Oak creates the same issue. I would just suggest to the OP checking your credit card policies before hitting the submit order button. Another reason for me to switch credit cards, I suppose.
I’m in a similar boat, 15 neck 34 or 35 sleeve length, and the calibrate shirt simply does not fit. A 15 neck was huge, so much that I would probably need a 14.5 or 14 (if they carried those sizes). In terms of actual neck size, I’m a 15, so it makes me thing they aren’t true to sizing. Either way, I’m 6’0 150 lbs (which is really slim), are you similar? Maybe the shirt I tried on was tagged incorrectly.
The billowiest shirt I own is a CT slim fit. I could clothe a modest Haitian family with the extra fabric in the waist and sleeves. Bought it a few years back so maybe I missed an updated cut?
Tom – I’m in DC too but haven’t been to the store yet. How do the shirts fit compared to other brands you like? Bigger, slimmer, longer sleeves, or what?
Two more things on CT shirts-
1. I’ve twice received catalogues with offers for 1 shirt and 1 tie for 39.95. I gave it a shot both times and that deal was awesome. Not sure how often that happens, but the shirts and ties are both wonderful.
2. I’m a big guy so unlike most folks on here I can’t do the slim fit thing. That means that I usually end up with a circus tent for a shirt that I either have to get tailored or hide under a jacket at all times. The CT regular fit shirts are a great fit for a man of my carriage. I regularly get compliments on them. How often do you get compliments on a white dress shirt, right? So if you’re a larger guy, they’re definitely worth a look.
The definitive tuxedo jacket is a double breasted with satin/grosgrain peak lapels. That’s from way back when Black Tie was the casual version of formalwear and White Tie was more prevalent. While DBs go in and out, peak lapels have always been a foundational element of a tuxedo. As the rules of style got more relaxed and casual, the shawl lapel was introduced and was favored by men looking for a look that was less formal and stodgy (think Dino). Unrelated note, the cummerbund actually came into the black tie universe the same way – it was a less formal waist covering than the traditional vest and was made popular by British soldiers returning from India who considered themselves too sporty and sprezzy to wear the full formal kit.
I love shawl lapels and if I were designing a tux it’d have one, but they’re tough to find and when you do their lapel shapes are usually pretty sad.
Peak is the more formal (and some say most traditional) style for a tuxedo, but I agree with Joe that I like the looks of a shawl collar best.
I’m liking the last on the Neumora, more; it’s more of a modern look. Appreciate the info!
CHISEL TOE WHARRGARBL!!!!1!!1!
(It really doesn’t look that squared off, if at all, in person, I really like my pair of Neumoras)
I can’t find them in my size anywhere…damn u AE!
“Conveniently” right across the street from the Brooks Brothers store on Adams. Looking forward to finally being able to try on the CT fits in person rather than dealing with the lengthy return policy if I’m not sold.
I generally wear BR’s Tailored Slim Dress Shirts. How do CT’s Extra Slim and Slim Fit compare?
When Charles Tyrwhit has an online sale can you get that deal in store? I’m not super slim but I would like a shirt that fits me and doesnt billow a ton at the waist. 5’8 16.5 neck and 33 or 34 sleave length. Trying to figure out if I should go with Brooks Kamakura or Tyrwhit?
If you’re buying four shirts, don’t buy off the US website where it is 4 for $200. Instead buy off the UK website where it is 4 for 100 GBP. After all is said and done, going through the UK website saves you $40-$45 USD.
I’m probably a little strange in that I prefer the feel of an off-the-rack shirt more than any custom made I’ve had done. But I believe I started off finding shirts by neck & length at TJ Maxx. Fit wasn’t a factor. I then moved to Men’s Warehouse brands. I liked a lot of them at the time but had a bad MW experience with a sales person who lost my business for the company. I later realized these shirts were way too big for me, I can go about as trim as a shirt is offered. Jos. A. Banks were so cheap I literally had one wear a rip in the front *not* along a seam within a few weeks. I tried Paul Fredrick, but realized after CT that I didn’t like the PF material or collars I had. CT struck me as perfect for my neck, just right sleeve length, and proper in the waist and chest, although I could add a few darts. To make it perfect I would want it a little longer in the waist, and you have to not mind the button placement just below the top button. I then tried SuitSupply shirts and the Longs they sold me were way too long in the arms, and the cut of the collar is maybe a little too fashion forward to stand the test of time. I don’t like the fit of Express shirts as you can only choose from a few sizes and collars are small (I wear CT casually and with ties at work). I’ve had at least 3 tailors make custom shirts for me, and as I’ve mentioned I’ve never been super impressed. And I’ve never tried Brooks Brothers or many other companies. May have peeked at Hugh & Crye a few times, but they don’t have the neck and arm length down to inches so I don’t trust they’d fit me properly.
Sorry for the long answer, but right now I’m being lazy and that’s leading to unorganization and the making up of words like “unorganization”.
I’ve bought several shirts from CT, both online and in their NYC store. They’re excellent quality and you can find a lot of beautiful patterns and colors. I even bought their ties when they ran sales (always buy CT on sale). For $40-50, you can’t buy a better shirt than CT. But, the Slim Fit was not slim enough, and Extra Slim Fit had darts on the back, which I find objectionable. Also, their neck-sleeve combos have holes, so a lot of my CT shirts have sleeves that are a little too long. I stopped buying from CT when I discovered J. Hilburn custom shirts — they cost more, but they fit infinitely better, and the fabrics and construction are first-rate.
Athletic, 41″ chest. Arms still balloon out and look sloppy rather than fitted..
Odd, I’m about the same and if anything the arms are a little tight for me.
This is great, thanks. I’ve been meaning to try Hugh + Crye for a while now. I just hate going to Georgetown and have a suspicion that their arms will be too long. Will check them and CT out soon.
Thanks again,
Brock
For the money, it’s hard to find a better quality shirt than Charles Tyrwhitt. Their Extra Slim Fit is great for guys with athletic upper bodies who want a tailored fit. One complaint I have though is I find the shirt cuffs to be too large – I can almost fit my closed fist through the cuff when it is buttoned! Can a tailor fix this by simply moving the cuff buttons? Or is there more work involved for the cuff and sleeve to look correct and fit properly? Thanks!
Chiming in to show CT shirts some love. I’m even wearing one right now as I type this. BR shirts are not bad, but the length isn’t where I want it to be and the shoulders make me feel like I’m about rip my shirt like the Hulk when I reach for something. When I finally tried a CT extra slim, suddenly I have full range of motion in my shoulders and my shirts don’t untuck themselves anymore ( 6’1″, 170 lbs., broad shoulders, for those looking for a build comparison). I bought 4 shirts from them around Fall/Winter for $120 and now I’m just waiting for a another big sale to come around.
I ordered the 4 shirts for $199 in October for a wedding that was in a couple of weeks. I had a coupon that they sent so it got the price down a bit. I ordered the monogramming on the shirts, but paid a little extra for the expedited delivery. I ordered on Thursday and the shirts arrived on Tuesday. I highly recommend the quicker delivery, which was around $15. I couldn’t believe the turnaround from the UK, especially with the monogramming. They are my 4 favorite shirts in my wardrobe right now.
I am a big find of CT Shirts as well. Little trick I use. The british site which is just the same exact site, wording is a bit different, does 4 for 100 GBP. Which is only 160 US Dollars. They also had a 12% off code to go with it. So even after shipping, and my foreign transaction fee, it was only 155 for 4 shirts.
15.5 inch arms, and still this happens.
How do you get to the British version of the site?
Nevermind. I found it. Great tip.