Ask A Woman: When college isn’t like Animal House…
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Hi Beth,
I am a college student, and I’m having trouble meeting women. Yes, I know this sounds crazy because a college campus seems like a perfect place to meet women. First of all, I am not fond of the whole partying environment, and I don’t really care for going to the bars or clubs in my college town – I can’t stand the smell of smoke. I am an engineering major, so females are scarce in my classes. I am involved in a few extracurricular activities: UAV design team, band, Bible study. None of these are ideal for meeting women, however. I certainly see plenty of attractive women throughout campus, particularly in the library, but I do not know how to approach them. I just have never brought myself to walk up to a random gal and start talking to her. The fear of rejection does not bother me too much, but I do not want to seem like a creep. Plus, I want to maximize my chances. My main question, then, is how should I approach a woman that I am interested in?
Thanks,
Austin
Hi Austin,
Thanks for writing in–though difficulty meeting women is certainly not a new topic here at Ask A Woman, your particular situation is, so I’m happy to be able to address it.
I think we all have to concede that college is a really weird time in most people’s lives. It’s great, don’t get me wrong, but real world rules do not apply. Case in point: only in college is it considered acceptable and normal to get super wasted, hit on a similarly wasted female you’ve just met, and then try to get her to sleep with you, while approaching someone in the library when both of you have your wits about you is considered creepy and odd. Any other time in your life, the exact opposite is true.
If you were a 26 year old, wanting to know how to meet random women you see out and about, I’d tell you to strap on a pair, approach the woman honestly and openly (“Hi, I noticed you sitting here and wondered if you could use a study break—I’m headed to get coffee, wanna join me?”), risk rejection and just do it. BUT. Your instinct that college women are different is right on. Some women may be open to your advances but I’d wager that MOST college women will not be. It’s probably because many people in college feel they don’t need help meeting potential dates; they have classes and parties and clubs so they’d rather go out with someone they meet in the course of these experiences, than “force” the issue with a complete stranger.
But you have a different situation. You’re not in the party scene, and you’re in a major that attracts relatively few females. I have to say I’m surprised that band and Bible study haven’t panned out for you, but I’ll take your word on that. Here are my best two suggestions: 1) seek out new experiences. Not a fan of theater but have a friend who is in a new play on campus? Go. And after the performance ask him to take you along to the cast party. If you have two hours to spare each week, you can get a regular volunteering gig—most colleges have an office devoted to connecting students with volunteer opportunities. Pick something unrelated to your major—walking dogs at an animal shelter, helping kids with homework at an after school program—but that still taps into your other interests. You may get a date this way, but even if you don’t, it sounds like you need to get out of your comfort zone and meet people you wouldn’t otherwise encounter, and this would certainly accomplish that.
My second suggestion is to wait. Wait until after college. It may seem like wasted time, but it’s not. Have fun with your friends, get kick ass grades, and enjoy the lack of obligations. If you happen to meet someone, that’s wonderful, but if you don’t, no worries! You have plenty of time. And if you hate both of these suggestions, then you’ll have to risk being the creepy guy.
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
Gene Simmons was interviewed on Howard Stern. It has been said that he has slept with over 3,000 women. Howard asked him about his approach. Gene said, you have to approach a woman square on, and tell her immediately that you find her attractive. This establishes your objective right away, that you are into her. And ultimately, where it goes from there is the woman’s decision. So at least she knows, without any of the bs, what your intent is. Women spend a considerable amount of time taking care of themselves, so the best thing you can do is to disclose your attraction to her.
Again, this is Gene speaking. What do you think, Beth?
My roommate and I put an ad in the school newspaper for a double date for a dorm dance. It was supposed to just be a funny joke, but we got a couple of responses. We ended up going with these two girls and now my roommate is dating one of them.
My advice: Don’t be afraid to put yourself out there and look like a fool.
P.S. Look for a Ballroom/Latin Dance club on campus. You can get extremely cheap lessons and actually know how to Tango and Salsa. It may give you the confidence to ask girls to dance and it’s a lot of fun.
Get a job at a local coffee shop and don’t grow an ironic mustache…problem solved
I graduated from undergrad a couple months ago and now a 9 to 5er and this is my advice to you: Do anything! I know that’s stupid and vague, but the concept is simple: if you don’t make any move, then the girl won’t know who you are.
Don’t worry about dating, just start with getting comfortable approaching women you don’t know. Whether you ask how they’re doing, compliment them, offer help, or talk about something as boring as the weather, you’ll have to learn how to make conversation first.
I’m no dating expert or read those cheesey “pick up” books, but I’m shy around strangers so I can relate. And I really encourage people to get to know more people in college (whether making new friends or dating) because it’s DAMN HARD for me to make new friends or find new dating potential while working 9 to 5 and my office is full of older people. College is full of people your age so make the most out of it! (Wish someone told me that before)
Beth’s advice is spot on, but you’ve got to be able to initiate and continue conversation with your person of interest if you’re going to get any further than simply being in the same room. The art of conversation is dying, and a gent who can show genuine interest and provide thoughtful banter is a leg up on every other schlub talking with one earbud dangling. Be that guy by practicing with random folks in your grocery store, walking to class, and even that cousin you rarely talk to. Know more topics to discuss by reading the front pages of the WSJ, WashPost, NY Times and LA Times. You don’t have to be a professor of the topics, just familiar and able to form a conversational opinion on the issue.
Oh, and don’t worry about the college women. There are plenty more beautiful, educated, and established ladies waiting after you get your diploma.
If the guy writing wants to avoid being a creep, I think it would be wise to do the opposite of whatever Gene Simmons does.
All sound advice. Definitely won’t hurt to put yourself out there. Even if you don’t meet someone, you’re making connections and broadening your interests and experiences.
I completely understand your reluctance on the party scene. Being greek at a very large university, I saw my fair share of parties and socials, but there’s something to be said about looking for someone who shares your interests. You’ve got a much better chance of finding that elsewhere, and you won’t have to struggle to be heard over the obnoxious Top 40 booming in the background. Many of my friends are in serious relationships with women they met through involvement in service organizations, so if there’s a particular cause you’re passionate about, I’d seek out a group dedicated to it.
Just keep an open mind and have fun! College is entirely what you make of it, and if you do it right, you’ll come out of those four years better than you ever were during them.
I completely agree with this. I took a couple social dance classes in college and the ratio of women to men was definitely in my favor. I also randomly get the chance to use what I learned out in the real world at a bar or event and women seem to love the fact that I know how to dance.
Haha, well, some chicks dig hipsters. I really don’t understand why though.
Additionally, Gene Simmons is Gene Simmons.
I’m in the same boat as this guy; REALLY busy architectural engineering major, not into drinking/partying, plus I’m one of those INTJ people who just doesn’t really understand or care for alot of the dumb social conventions, like the one Beth mentions here about it being “creepy” in college to approach girls in public settings. It’s kind of ironic that I read this today, because for the last couple weeks I’ve been struggling to talk to a girl in one of my classes. I can hold a normal conversation and have social skills, but I’m still waaay introverted and not good at reading people, and when it’s a girl I’m into, I PANIC. I’m afraid anything I say is going to basically turn into “I love lamp”.
I dig chicks who don’t dig hipsters.
Start dressing yourself up half way decent, lose a few pounds if you need to and start making eye contact and smiling at ladies who smile at your first.
I used to be in your shoes. I only discovered the art of getting women to actually approach me on accident, long after I was married and it wasn’t beneficial to me anymore.
that’s part “it works because hes a bad ass” and part “hes a bad ass so it works”.
But his sentiment it to be appreciated. You dont have to be a creep to let a woman know you find her attractive. You simply approaching establishes that.
Is it really creepy to tell a woman that you find her attractive?
We aren’t all graduates of Body Language University. If he only approached women who he though were interested, he’d never approach.
You can still be a scientist and believe in intelligent design / creation. All speculation about how the universe was formed is theory.
If you don’t care for ‘dumb social conventions’ then you are making things more difficult for yourself. It is important to know what people expect. If on the first date, you think “I want to marry this girl” and tell her that, she won’t respond positively even if she feels the same way.
For the highest chance of success, learn those rules, even if they are dumb.
Eye contact is huge. Best way to gauge interest. If s/he is making positive eye contact, good. If s/he is laughing to friends and pointing at you, maybe try someone else.
Maybe start with applying to BLU? Just pay attention to what people are doing. Observing couples you know well could be a good example of how body language can be read.
Not a lot of love for the party scene. To each their own, but it is a good way to network. And a solid network will get you dates.
I don’t feel like I’m the greatest at interpreting body language and social cues either. That’s why I suggested being liberal in your interpretations.
You can recognize a smile, right? But is she smiling at you because she thinks you’re hot, or maybe she’s just friendly, or maybe she was actually smiling at someone behind you… Stop. You’re overanalyzing. This is as good as it’s going to get. Just assume she thinks you are a god and go talk to her.
The point is not that every approach will be successful. The point is that your success rate will be something you can live with, and even your failures are likely to be reasonably pleasant experiences.
This advice is spot on, as always.
Sack up. You need to be a man at some point. Talk to girls in your extracurriculars. Sit next to girls in class and introduce yourself. Bible Study in particular seems to be the best possible place to meet girls who share your hatred of parties (are you sure you hate the parties and not the socializing?). Don’t take advice from women because they’ll advise you to do what they want to work, which is not necessarily what actually works. You don’t have to be Don Juan or use alcohol fueled social situations to your advantage (consider it), but you need to actually talk to girls. I would advise against the direct approach advocated in this article because you don’t have the confidence to pull it off and will just come off as nervous and inexperienced and a little pathetic with your shaking hands and sporadic eye contact. Here’s your template: Introduce yourself, talk briefly (one class sitting next to each other is sufficient), exchange numbers (yeah you gotta ask, so sack up and be a man; when you ask treat it like it’s no big deal because it isn’t a big deal), invite to a social gathering (via text; the days of the nervous phone call are over), rinse, repeat. You risk being friend zoned because you are so inexperienced, but you need to learn how to talk to women at some point. If you get into trouble, fall back on non-self deprecating humor, lots of eye contact, and try to not smile too much. A self satisfied smirk goes a long way. Never self-depricate, you aren’t confident enough for it to be endearing, it will just come across as weak.
But seriously, consider parties and bars, and also observe friends of yours who are good with women and ask them lots of questions.
lol
You need a certain confidence to be that direct. If you say it while looking at your shoes it is not going to work with any woman.
Here’s a much better tip than trolling for girls at mass: Sit at the same table as one of those girls in the library (not next to them or directly across from them, but like “kitty corner”), smile at them and make eye contact when you sit down, and see if they return the smile (they will). Then make a simple throw away comment like “tough class?” or “nice day” and use that to have a very brief and friendly conversation where you introduce yourself. Start studying. Don’t be afraid to make comments occasionally to her that are innocuous, but just be friendly. If you actually do strike up a decent conversation (interpret liberally, but you should know if she just wants you to leave her alone) then ask for a phone number like it’s no big deal. Text about an hour after you leave about some inside joke. If she responds you’re golden. Invite to a social event: “I’m going to ___ you should come”.
I hear you- I DO generally follow the rules even if I don’t like them. And I’m not trying to say ALL social conventions are dumb, just some of them. I know better than to straight up propose to a girl on the first date; that’s coming on a bit strong haha.
Sorry, but I totally disagree. I don’t want to sound sexist here, but this is a perfect example of why women should not give advice to guys on anything other than style/fashion. He should wait out the college years?? That is the worst advice advice I’ve ever heard! When this guy graduates, he will just be entering into the real world just as lame as he is now.
If this guy’s goal is really to meet women, then he needs to immeadiately make some changes. First step, he should read “The Game” by Neil Strauss. That should provide an introduction to what is actually posible when it comes to meeting women. Second, even if he hates the party/club scene, he should still force himself to go out. Its where the women are. Third, thats complete bullshit that college women can only be picked up in bars. Go to the library and coffee shops and approach approach approach! Fourth and finally, sign up for some dating sites on the internet.
If he doesn’t want to make changes such as these, then he really doesn’t want to meet women that bad..
I’m not really sure how that ‘lol’ should be interpreted. Are you laughing in agreement or in mockery?
For what it’s worth, there’s no conclusive proof on either side. There are certain scientific beliefs that contradict the Bible, such as Darwin’s theory of evolution that indicates that man evolved from apes and carbon dating which indicates that the world is many billions of years older that the Bible teaches. That being said, science marches on. We’ve come a long way in the 150 years since Darwin, and the man-ape “missing link” would be considered outdated. Through carbon dating, we’re constantly re-evaluating our idea of the Earth’s age, to the extent of adding billions of years to it’s current age every year. Naturally, these are just examples, and it’s not an exhaustive list by any means.
As far as I’m concerned, absolute adherence to science requires as much faith as adherence to religion; I’d actually argue that it requires more faith, as it’s far more likely that the science you’re accepting as fact will be significantly re-thought during your lifetime as we discover more and more.
Furthermore, engineers don’t get “more leeway” because they’re not “real scientists”. Astronomers have a very high conversion rate to religion (not just Christianity). I would agree that the engineering mindset is more “does it work?” that “is it true?” but that in no way reduces the value of my own opinions on the subject as an engineer. Arguably, a strict adherence to the scientific process applied to religion should result in “inconclusive evidence; no conclusion or judgment can be made at this time” rather than, “religion is false”. Atheist scientists are entitled to their philosophies, but until they provide conclusive evidence that there is no God (and that’s just one or four religions), their atheist beliefs are just as unsubstantiated as my Christian ones.
Depending on your interpretation of something as subtle as BL (which will be spotty at best) as a the impetus to try and determine whether or not you talk to a girl is not a good idea.
What if the girl doesn’t even look your way?
What if you suck at reading BL?
What if she send mixed signals?
Don’t wait until you get a window of opportunity – open the window yourself.
Thank you for a level headed response to this.
’nuff said after the first sentence.
Oh geez. here we go again. I’m sorry that this is getting out of the topic here, mods, but I had to respond this religious propaganda. Yet another sign why U.S even bothers to discuss teaching creationism in science classes since they are both “theories” and “equally valid”. No conclusive proof on either side? Sure, if you mean one has overwhelming evidence that may need some faith and logic while the other is a complete leap of faith with no evidence at all. Where is the proof of 6000 earth thing except for a book (e.g. bible) written by some middle east peasants who didn’t know the earth revolves around the sun and “supposedly” heard the words from god in their private revelation some 2000 years ago because they said so in that one book? Where is evidence that human walked around with dinosaurs? None. There is no evidence on creationism. They are NOT the same, my friend. You might as well say that geocentrism is equally valid since there is no conclusive proof that the earth revolves around the sun -after all, when we look up there is no evidence that’s the case.
If you say religion brings comfort to people, you don’t have an issue with me since I can’t deny that it isn’t the case and what they feel. But to say creationism is equally valid as evolution is nonsense. And to dump on science because it will change as it gets more evidence and information is just as silly since we all know how “flexible” religions are when it comes to evidence and information, LOL! Only in U.S. this equivalent thing alive and well. It’s miracle (pardon for pun) that U.S. can still maintain its lead in science despite of all this.
Yeah sure, it’s a quite pseudo-open minded, most intelligent post when he (Dreadpiratehurley) basically says creationism is equally valid as evolution (not just Darwin’s Natural selection theory, but “evolution” itself, which all modern biology and medicines are based on) and other science AND that science needs more “faith” to believe than religion. I’m sure it was very comforting for christians and religious minds to read these sort of thinly veiled, faux-smiley posts and call it “level headed” when it’s not open-minded at all -yeah sure it’s not calling science and evolution BS and from pits of hell, but c’mon now 🙂
Sort of. You can believe that God, Allah, etc. caused the big bang (or started the cycle of bangs, and crunches if you believe that theory). Hell, I’m even willing to stretch it to say that a “guiding hand” could have helped create some order to the ooze. But the idea that a intelligent creator created any of the modern (or near modern) flora/fauna is incompatible with scientific teaching. Now, it doesn’t mean you can’t have faith despite the scientific evidence, but you have to at least recognize the conflict.
Have to agree on all counts. Just talk to people- make small talk on the elevator, sit somewhere different in class (if seats aren’t assigned) and talk, compliment someone, say hello to that pretty girl (but nothing else if you’re just passing each other) etc. Just talk to people.
You’ll find that after you do that for a while, that talking to women you’re interested is just a touch less scary. Also, don’t forget the power of repetition. If you’ve said hello to a girl a few times at the library and complimented her shirt, the other day, it won’t be as creepy because there some basic level familiarity.
Austin, I would tell you to BE SEEN. As in, if you find a girl attractive and you’ve seen her in the library/cafe/SUB/etc a few times, make sure you’re being seen by her – start smiling at her, say hi, etc, each time you see her, this will create a feeling of safety in her. As you become more familiar to her, she’ll be more comfortable with your eventual “approach” – then follow the rules of creating small talk that the other guys have offered.
By all means, approach on the first sighting, if you are comfortable with that, but be prepared for a higher percentage of rejection than if you take a little time and let her become used to seeing you around.
exactly, cant make the mountain come to Mohammed, If your that uncomfortable at parties, the cold calling on women is gonna be a nightmare. Go out, go to parties, do it on your terms, you dont have to start shotgunning beers and doing jello shots, but go and start up conversations. The rejection is much easier to handle when the girls cant remember rejecting you the next day
Plot twist: Jwedel1231 is hipster.
Kudos for calling him lame out of nowhere.
Nah. The burden of proof is not on the atheists. We live in a developed western nation in the 21st century, but we are still fighting with institutional and widespread misogyny, racism, religious intolerance, and homophobia.
So make your claims that “absolute adherence to science requires as much faith as adherence to religion,” but that attitude of willful ignorance is what holds us back. Religion is a system; science is a process. Systems produce stasis. Processes progress.