Joseph Abboud made in the USA “Modern Fit” Suit – $495
Give them credit. Men’s Wearhouse is trying, hard, to shed their previous image of a place that slings crummy suits for old guys, sold by cringe inducing, pressure applying sales-weasels. And the biggest feather in that transition-to-a-new-life cap, so far, has to be their Made in the USA, half-canvassed, slimmer fitting line from Joseph Abboud. All for about the same amount as Suitsupply?
Right. They are trying. Hard.
But there are still some kinks to iron steam out. Even in the ordering process. For example, these Abboud suits come in three different fits:
- Modern Fit which “features a modern, slim fit”.
- Slim Fit which offers “a more streamlined look.”
- Extreme Slim Fit which has an “extra streamlined silhouette”
Three different fits, all use the word “slim” to describe themselves, to some extent.
That’s two more fits than many of us were expecting. Anyway, the Slim & Extreme Slim suits don’t come in solids (at least not online, yet…) so a “Modern Fit” in solid navy was ordered. Went with a 39R Jacket, which comes with a 33 waist. Here’s what showed up:
Not exactly Suitsupply-like presentation.
Why do I envision an enraged George Zimmer secretly breaking into the MW shipping facility at night, and stomping all the outgoing boxes to smithereens?
When the box pretty much fell open, the prepaid return label (nice of them to include one) was stuck to the underside of the packing tape. Removing the return label from the tape… removed a chunk of the bar code from the return label. We’re off to a tremendous stop.
But the suit? The suit was… pleasant?
The Fit
The “Modern” Fit in 39R. Could be slimmer in both the jacket & pant
A 39R in the new Men’s Wearhouse Abboud Modern fit noticeably bigger through the mid-section than a Suitsupply Napoli in 38 (see below). And not just because it was one size (39 vs 38) up. There just wasn’t the same sort of off the rack/out of the box sculpting. Shoulders felt decent though. Pants were also a little on the frumpy side through the seat & thigh.
The tail has some good traditional length to it. It might be labeled as “modern” but they didn’t go with a shorter tail. It’s a butt cover-er. Sleeve length is longer than expected, but that won’t be a problem (more on that in a bit). Arm holes are neither movement restricting low, or armpit strangling high. There’s not a ton of taper through the sides, but there’s no doubt that post-tailoring this suit could fit well, if not extremely well.
Left: Men’s Wearhouse Abboud Modern Fit 39R. Right: Suitsupply Napoli in 38R.
Neither have been altered by a tailor.
The Fabric
“Made in the USA of imported fabric”, and that fabric is super 120s wool from the Marzatto mill in Italy. The higher the “super” # usually indicates that finer fibers were used to make it. The finer the fibers usually leads to a smoother, softer feel in your hands. But it’s also good to know that the higher the number, the more fragile the fabric. 120s should be both smooth & reasonably durable. The wool used for this Abboud suit feels like a good, solid wool. But calling it luxurious would be a stretch. It’s slightly rougher than the super 110 Vitale Barberis Canonico wool used in my Suitsupply navy Napoli. Not a knock, but nothing to write home about either.
Made in the USA From Super 120s Marzatto wool.
The Construction and Details
It’s a half canvas, and it drapes like one. No stiff, fighting-against-you-feeling that many a cheap fused suit will give you. Shoulder pads are there. Not razor thin, but not thick either. Lining is bemberg, so it should breathe a bit. Stitching all around seems even and strong. The notch lapels are a timeless, not too thin nor too thick 3.25″ at their widest point. Jacket has dual side vents in the rear.
But by far, the biggest positive here is their choice to use non-functioning buttons at the sleeve cuffs. That’s a huge deal for those who have abnormally short or long arms, especially in comparison to the functioning buttons on Suitsupply’s suits. They’ve even left off that annoying accent stitching that sometimes surrounds non-functioning buttons. Unlike functioning button holes, tailoring to show 1/4″ of shirt sleeve here should be a breeze.
But about those buttons… they look & feel kinda cheap. They’re just there. Kinda dead. It’s the biggest drawback of the suit by far. They’re not awful, but this suit deserves a bit better.
Non functioning buttons! Makes for easy tailoring.
The Bottom Line:
If you’ve found and love a fit through Suitsupply, then stick with it. The movement of a Suitsupply, as well as the fabric and details (like buttons) seem to be, perhaps, a hair above these new Abbouds.
But if you’ve struck out with Suitsupply, or, other half-canvassed suit makers due to functional button holes on the sleeves, these new options from Abooud & Men’s Wearhouse are certainly worth a shot.
Just make sure you open the box carefully.
I pledge allegiance… to my tailor… who really needs to bring in the sides of this jacket.
Are these available in stores yet? They don’t seem to be in any near me.
I had the same question. The biggest potential advantage here over a place like SuitSupply is that there are Men’s Wearhouses everywhere.
I don’t know why anyone would spend $500 on this suit when you can have a custom MTM suit made especially for you for the same price from an online shop. I’m for “made in America” as much as the next guy, but not when it means settling for a vastly inferior product for the same money.
I’ve purchased 1 suit & shirt from Indochino so far, and I couldn’t be happier. I have another suit & shirt currently being made by Black Lapel now. I don’t think I can ever buy off the rack again!
I’ve soured on Abboud over the years. I bought my wedding tux from them, it frayed and fell apart, I’ve bought shirts made by them and they’ve always shrunk when laundered. Given my past issues, I’d be hard pressed to drop $500 on anything from them.
On the other hand, I don’t know why anyone would spend $X on a fused, online MTM suit when they could spend the same money to get a perfectly good half-canvassed OTR option that will fit just as well or better with a little tailoring.
I’ve seen and heard enough online MTM disaster stories that I would hesitate to recommend it to anyone who could reasonably fit into a tailored OTR suit instead.
A $500 suit will always have compromises. I have tried some options: off-the-rack with a tailor and the pseudo MTM via indochino. In both cases, the suit looks reasonable though typically there is a “but”. As in, “but” the fabric isn’t so hot or “but” it is fused. Other times the “but” involves an odd dimension that doesn’t look quite right. Full disclosure, I’m a weird tiny size.
Unfortunately, the “people-stop-me-on-the-street-to-ask-where-I-bought-it” suits are closer to triple the price. Even in that range, the suit is only somewhat bespoke.
They are 2 for 900 right now on the mens wearhouse website.
Most online MTM suits are half canvassed, including Indochino.
I have two suits from them and they fit perfectly.
You and plenty of people have had a great experience with Indochino. But just as many people have had a terrible experience. I’d rather go with a business that has a physical presence nearby in case I’m in the latter group.
Paid a visit to MW last week, they also are offering MTM Abbouds starting at just under $600.
Indochino is highly divisive. I, myself, have had pretty good experiences with them. But boy, they can really goof (or, the customer measuring can goof) on some measurements (chopped jackets for example: http://dappered.com/2012/10/indochinos-travelling-tailor-the-results/ )
And as far as being “Vastly inferior?” Hardly. This suit has the construction & fabric quality for sure. I’d just personally take a Suitsupply over the Abboud. And I’d take an Abboud over Indochino, simply because there’s less risk, and I won’t have to shell out for returns.
The “abboud” name has been bought and sold plenty over the last decade or so: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/07/25/designer-joseph-abboud-reunited-with-clothing-label/vRvHZjA3dgPSiuArm4QNVL/story.html
I think it just depends on when you got the garments, and who was making them. For example, I’m hoping they’ll continue to make these barely-there blazers that seem to have debuted in 2012, : http://dappered.com/2014/05/the-suggestion-joseph-abbouds-barely-there-blazer/ which was when he was the chief creative officer at HMX (Hickey Freeman, among others). So, I have no clue if they’re gonna.
Yes they are, at least in the store I stopped in. The sales person was very excited to show them to me. And I must say, I was pretty impressed. Modern fit is really more of a regular fit, slim fit was nice and trim and gave a nice silhouette, extra slim was actually too slim for me, but may work for thinner men. They look and feel pretty great. My biggest complaint was, at least right now, there’s a lack of variety in the suiting (but not an issue if you’re looking for a plain navy or charcoal). Also as Joe mentioned the buttons look a bit meh.
Joe – Fair enough. Maybe others have had some bad experiences. I think MTM has gotten much better over the years. The first suit I received from Indochino after attending a traveling tailor event wasn’t perfect. But I tweaked the measurements, and they sent me remakes of the jacket, vest, and shirt all free.
Also, perhaps “vastly inferior” wasn’t the best term. I meant in terms of fit & customization, not necessarily construction. I just don’t see how anything OTR can fit better than a suit made to your exact measurements. Plus all the customization options you get with MTM (lapels, pockets, number of buttons, functional button holes & boutonniere, pick stitching, lining, etc).
Matt – I also prefer doing business in person (which is why I waited for a traveling tailor event to get measured with Indochino). This was an important factor when I chose Black Lapel for my 2nd MTM suit. I visited their NYC office to get measured and see all their suits in person. I will visit them again once the suit comes in as they also handle their own alterations, if needed.
BenR – my indochino suit is half canvassed. Black Lapel suits are also half canvassed, and they also offer a $200 upgrade to full canvassed on any one of their suits.
Customization? Oh of course, that’s what the online MTM guys specialize in. But as far as fit goes, I don’t know if I’d go as far as you. I was often accused of being an Indochino apologist in the past few years, because I really did have a good experience with them. But even after tweaks by my tailor (and adjustments to measurements), my Indochino suits never fit or draped as well as my Suitsupply Napoli & London fits. BUT… it’s gonna be different for everyone.
If you’re patient (remakes & tweaks) & are hard to fit, then I’d say go with online MTM. If you fit into standard suit sizing, I’d honestly suggest giving Suitsupply a try. It’s free shipping both ways after all.
What are the actual fit measurements for these suits? I’m curious as to what the drops are like for the slim and extreme slim fits.
Concerning the discussion about Indochino and other online MTM, as a muscular guy, I’m sure I’ll end up sticking with taking the risk and dealing with the remake hassles. Though it is frustrating. I’m currently waiting on my third remake for my suit trousers from Indochino…but at least they got the jacket fit on point on the second try.
I just wonder if, after tailoring costs, if the total suit cost will be cheaper with online MTM, provided they have your measurements correct.
I fall into the same camp. I had a relative hook me up with his tailor for a very nice (and costly) MTM suit. The material used for the MTM suit is amazing. But, hands down, I enjoy the fit/cut of my suitsupply London and Napoli suits much better, and I easily could have had two Napolis for the price of the MTM.
See, that’s good news for Abboud. The last time I bought anything made by them it was at Men’s Warehouse and it’s been a few years (maybe 3-4?). So I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for the info, all the way around.
My bad on the fused/canvassed thing. My general point still stands, though.
“I just don’t see how anything OTR can fit better than a suit made to your exact measurements.”
This overstates the precision of the fit afforded by online MTM. OTR can and does fit as well or better when you start with a high-quality, well-fitting suit and a skilled tailor further customizes the fit for you, as necessary.
The difference is that most online MTM uses the consumer’s provided measurements to make best-guess modifications to a generic production template, and hope the resulting product meets the consumer’s needs and expectations.
There is all kinds of risk inherent in this process – risk that the consumer did not correctly measure himself, risk that the manufacturer will make incorrect assumptions about how those body measurements should translate into garment dimensions, risk that the template itself is not a good shape for the consumer to begin with, risk that even a well-prepared manufacturing template might get messed up at some point during manufacturing. The fact that there are hard numbers involved should not lull the consumer into believing this method is somehow more exactingly scientific and fool-proof than it is. It’s a blind crapshoot. Sometimes it turns out fantastic, sometimes it turns out horribly, and more often you end up with something that is just mediocre.
OTR + tailoring, on the other hand, starts with a close-but-not-perfect generic fit and modifies it to fit the consumer’s actual body and preferences. Assuming the consumer knows what he’s looking for and tailor is skilled and trustworthy, this method all but eliminates the risks inherent in online MTM. The consumer is present at every relevant stage and the fit is not based on abstract numbers but on the consumer’s actual body and preferences. The consumer picks his own generic template based on the suit with the shape and fit he most prefers, the consumer picks his own alterations and gets to see an approximation of those changes when the tailor pins them, etc.
I’m not saying online MTM can NEVER give you a reasonably well-fitting suit. A lot of people are satisfied with the results they’ve had. However, my observation is that online MTM is really only a SUPERIOR option for people who have such unusual body proportions that they cannot make an OTR suit work for them. For example, a friend of mine is about 6’1″ with a 35″ chest and 28″ waist. Online MTM might work for him simply because there is virtually no OTR jacket made that is simultaneously long enough and skinny enough for him. For more “average” sized guys, though, unless you are willing to shell out the money for a true bespoke suit, the next best, most “custom” option will be to find the best-fitting OTR suit they can and have it tailored.
Ah, patience! That’s the biggest drawback of MTM for me so far. I want my fresh new suit now! Sounds like I may need to check out Suitsupply next. Quite a few readers here seem to recommend them. Thanks
If you put a perfectly tailored $500 suit on a model and completed the outfit with a great shirt, tie, shoes, etc, and walked him down the street, he’d get asked about his suit WAY more then if you put a so-so fitting $3000 suit on him with a shirt and tie that don’t really set off the rest of the outfit. What I’m getting at is that perceived appeal is much more about fit and finish than it is about actual quality when it comes to suits.
You’re right about the compromises though. Frankly, there are probably always going to be compromises in the suits you buy, unless your income is just stupid-high (ie. you can drop $5k to $10k per suit without blinking). Luckily, that doesn’t really matter, because you can almost certainly find suits that will be a fair compromise for your purposes, within your price range, even if your goal is to walk down the street and get stopped with questions about your outfit.
Does Indochino do actual canvassing? I haven’t read about them in a long time, but I feel like I recall them using some weird almost-canvassing chest piece that just wasn’t quite the same. Are you aware of anything like that or am I just not remembering correctly?
You got it Div. They used to use a “hybrid” style (not a traditional horse-hair canvas) but they’ve since switched to the traditional method.
@ diversification…..I agree with you 100%
Bought two JA suits when they came out. One Navy and one grey light plaid. I picked JA/MW because one of the few places that carried a 35s.
The Navy suit stated it was 100% wool but it was way too shiny and stiff to convince me. The pants were a little baggy for my tastes. Like this review states the jacket needs tailoring in the mid section and the shoulders for me were terrible, over padded and hung over my shoulders.
The grey light plaid suit also stated it was 100% wool. It defiantly lived up to claim. The fabric was just more flexible and softer compared to the navy suit. The pants again were a little baggy at the bottoms but the jacket fit perfectly on the shoulders. Oddly enough the sides didn’t scream tailor me.
Overall hit or miss. I kept both suits and they are in my work rotation. They are a bit pricey for what they are now that I have discovered JCF and Combatant Gentlemen.
I’d like to start off by saying I work at mens wearhouse and I agree that some of their suits are made cheaper with fused chest pieces and all that. The reality is though that type of construction is what allows the masses to own a suit, I don’t make enough to buy the zegna suits I would love to have so I buy what I can. Now with the abboud USA it’s a different story. It is a great suit for the price. The modern fit is actually not “modern” the slim fit will taper in on the sides much better and is a bit shorter jacket. And hey if you want it further tailored go ahead, if you’re that picky you won’t like “off the rack fit” anyway. They are also doing Joseph abboud custom suits in the stores starting at around the same price. Try it on, you’re gunna like the way you look, we guarantee it haha