First, we gotta define “perfect” and “impeccable”. A perfect fit, for this discussion, is destroyed by any wrinkle, any pull of fabric, anything that’s even the slightest bit off. Impeccable style, in this case, is impossible to obtain unless you’re immediately noticed & verbally hailed as breathing art when you walk in a room. The pursuit of nothing but perfect fits and impeccable style has become an epidemic perpetuated by the #menswear internet “culture“. And it’s stupid.
Why?
Because at some point, that pursuit of total and complete perfection starts to contradict the benefits of having a sense of style.
Instead of being seen as a talented/nice/successful/charming guy who knows how to dress well, you become a hyper-critical image-obsessed bore who has his priorities and perspective out of whack.
Or as the famed late 20th century philosopher S. Twain observed about some men: “Heaven forbid, (a hair) should fall out of place.”
Look, we’ve all benefited from buying clothes that fit better, finding a tailor to dial-in our off the rack stuff, and developing a personal sense of style. Confidence is gained, and the image you project pays off in how you’re treated by others. But there’s a line you might cross when pursuing “better” becomes “nothing but perfection”. It’s like the arms race for more and more pixels on TVs, smartphones, and laptops. The costs (not limited to the financial) just aren’t worth the benefits. And besides, the human eye probably can’t even tell the difference.
Take wearing a tailored, well cut & constructed off-the-rack suit in the real world. There might be “flaws” the obsessed, fit-critique-crazy Statlers and Waldorfs might pick apart if an image was posted to a forum. But in our real, 3-dimension motion-filled life? No one sees it. You’d be surprised how much others don’t notice about you and your clothes (see an explanation of “The Spotlight Effect” at 5:30 here).
“But I’d notice, and I dress for ME.” Okay, fine. But what do you lose out on along the way while pursuing perfection? That takes an investment, and not just a monetary one. Also, how do you limit that hyper-critiquing to yourself? The risk is that one day you wake up and you’re the asshole posting to facebook about how you don’t like Jessica Paré’s smile.
“Looks great, but…”
No. No buts. Looks great. Period.
When it comes to style & fit, good is great. Great is rare. Perfect, especially when judged by the menswear obsessed on the internet, means you might want to go outside and play.
What a great post. The hyper-critical stuff is inevitable when people start to essentially “worship” fashion.
Love the post. Some people are too obsessed with how they look, as if they are overcompensating for things that they lack. Confidence is everything. If you can’t exude the same level of confidence wearing a tshirt and shorts to the grocery store or wearing a tailored suit to the board room, one should re-examine themselves.
Hallelujah! I love my Bar III suits. They can be had for just north of $200, and I like the way they’re cut and the colors/fabrics they come in. Then I got super self conscious because the shoulders had a little divot, read some critical reviews on Threads, and started second guessing myself. Luckily, I wore one of them to a networking function with some former co-workers I had not seen in a while, and got some really great completely unsolicited compliments. Nobody seemed to notice/care about the divots.
For everyone who hasn’t had this experience in person yet, I’m glad Joe is covering it here in writing. I’m much happier with my imperfect suit that I love and everyone else thinks looks good than I was agonizing about whether I could spend twice as much on the “perfect” fit.
Ummmm…I’m going to have to see Jessica 3-dimensionally, in motion-filled life before I can judge this properly. And in those (lack of) clothes.
…but also, good work trying to keep everyone’s feet on the ground periodically. Just as important as helping all of us notice what we might be able to do better.
This is really applicable to your enjoyment of and engagement with any hobby, but surely it’s most noticeable in the ones you “take with you” so to speak
Great post, and I agree that the online menswear community can be a bit too nitpicky at times (if not all the time). However, I think it can be beneficial. We know that most people in real life don’t care about fashion, and so the only place we can get an honest critique is online. So if we don’t allow people online to say “the lapels are too skinny,” then we will never hear it. It’s certainly not the end of the world to never have our clothes in the right proportions, but it is nice to learn. And I don’t know what I don’t know, so when I post a picture online, I enjoy that someone tells me, “Looks good overall, but it could be even nicer if you did this.” Otherwise I would stagnate.
That being said, people can certainly go overboard with it, and this advice is worth hearing!
There’s almost a clothes correlation between this and Barney’s Hot Crazy Scale for women.
I bought a $5 t-shirt from H&M and it’s my new favorite. I love that thing and because it’s so cheap, it makes it feel even better when I put it on! I’m not joking that yesterday I wasted 5 minutes when I took it out of the dryer, caressed the material in disbelief I could own something like this for 20 quarters, smelled how clean it was, then lusted after my next chance to put it on (yes, I think I have a problem).
I also bought a 3-piece Suitsupply suit for nearly $500 that is amazing. But because it is so nice, I don’t want to really wear it that much. However, I have a BR Blue Chambray blazer I got for $90 the other day that is a couple shades off of the Suitsupply suit, and I would literally wear that to front row seats at a demolition derby held in the mud.
What I’m saying is after attaining “perfection” in a few arenas in life, I’ve come to believe expensive isn’t always good, and most of the time good enough is good enough for me.
I agree. I’ve learned a lot about suits since starting out being Dappered with my Express three-piece suits. I’ve gotten higher-rated (and more expensive) suits and paid double the money. But darn if I don’t get just as many compliments on the Express suits because of the great off the rack fit.
Honestly, if it fits well, it makes you feel confident, and it gets you compliments, stay with it and spend your extra money elsewhere.
Sometimes I get frustrated by the sloppy attire that is acceptable in 2014 (tights are not pants, ladies) but the upshot is that to most people, you look like Clark Gable just by throwing on a Gap sport coat over your jeans and button-down. People just don’t notice that your sleeves are a little long or that you did a half-assed job steaming your jacket when the guy next to you is wearing shorts that would be too big for Kevin Garnett.
I see a benefit in pursuing perfection, as long as it doesn’t become an obsession. I’m happy with my suits, now but I know that certain things aren’t exactly right and when I purchase another suit I know what to look for, and maybe I can get a little closer to that perfect fit. If we can get closer to a perfect fit, while not burning our old suits because the shoulders are 3mm too wide, then I find the pursuit beneficial.
As for the forums ripping apart every fit, I also appreciate that. The main problem is that people don’t realize that the people on forums are the 99.99 percentile of giving a damn. The rest of the world won’t notice these issues and your suit looks fine. But now you know what to look out for in the next suit.
Being a Style Nazi is like being a Grammar Nazi. You only do it because you feel that you have something to prove. But all you really end up proving is that you think being right is more important than being bearable.
” (tights are not pants, ladies)”
SHHHHHHHHHH
“As for the forums ripping apart every fit, I also appreciate that… the people on forums are the 99.99 percentile of giving a damn.”
Giving a damn about what though? Looking better than the rest of the online menswear community? Or giving a damn about how something looks in a still photo posted to a web forum as opposed to in real life? What does it matter? What does that achieve?
And when you self-identify as that tiny fraction of a %, how do you not offer unsolicited crazy-critique? Every style-related picture is an “opportunity” for critique, even if it’s not asked for. Some guys have allowed themselves to become programmed to think that they’re ALWAYS being asked to be hyper critical of another person’s choices. Do that in the real world and see what happens.
I sorta see what you’re saying Yaniel. There is value in the forums and boards and asking for fit advice, etc… but see DXLi’s comment.
“The crotch is not filled out enough. Needs more padding.”
I’d argue that part of dressing well (at least in the “iconic cool” sense”) is NOT looking perfect. Being too immaculate becomes counterproductive to the image of confidence you’re trying to convey. I’d rather look like the kind of guy who wouldn’t think past wearing a suit to *cough* wash his car with a pressure hose.
“But all you really end up proving is that you think being right is more important than being bearable.”
Save that line for your biography, that’s super insightful.
I’ll call it The Rise and Fall of an I-Gent. HarperCollins, New York, New York, 2015.
Thank you for this, Joe. In the rush to improve, we’ve become too prone to cutting down ourselves and others with a far too critical eye
.
This is applicable to almost every aspect of life. I run into this sort of thing at my gym quite often. “But I need to lose/gain a few more pounds,” or “I’m pretty lame this week, I’ve only come into the gym 4 days instead of 7.” Keep things in perspective– just like your properly fitted shirt looks amazing next to some schlub in something two sizes too big, your average body fat and occasional cheat day is still better than sedentary lifestyles and McDonalds for lunch every day. It’s easy to get wrapped up in something and lose sight of reality.
Being the self-centered d-bag I am, I imagine my comment last week[1] may have played a role in the timing of this post, so I’ll offer a counterpoint to invite some debate.
TL;DR: If something’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well
While it isn’t important to follow the rules/guidelines, they do exist for a reason. It’s kind of like etiquette- the rules may seem archaic and fussy, but they’re all subtle ways of making life better. Humor me by considering an example from 1787- it’s rude to blow on your food at a dinner party [2]. Why? If you blow on the food, your host knows they served the food too hot and might feel self-conscious. They might not, and probably won’t notice or care, but isn’t it kinder to let the food cool naturally and not risk it? Nobody’s going to criticize you for blowing on your food, and your host won’t even realize it’s bad manners, but if you can do something trivial to make your host happier, shouldn’t you?
Apply the same thought process to menswear- if you break the “match your collar and lapel sizes” rule, is anybody in the real world going to notice? Of course not! But if your suit lapel is larger than your shirt collar it’ll draw attention to your suit instead of your (less expensive) shirt, and isn’t that subtly better? Like etiquette, it’s an invisible shift that improves you without anyone noticing.
We’re here on an almost daily basis reading about style, so why not improve on an almost daily basis? Even the pros go to practice, and no matter how good you get, you can always improve. Refusing to acknowledge our own flaws is the easiest way to stagnate and stop improving. Admitting your imperfections doesn’t mean you aren’t killing it, and commentary shouldn’t be mistaken for criticism. It is simply allowing room for future improvement and better understanding.
If you’ve ever tailored a blazer or thrown out a pair of acid washed jeans, you’ve probably already crossed the line where people know you spend time thinking about style. These people might already think you should go outside more, that you’re overdressed, and they will continue to do so regardless of your future behavior. Dress for yourself, not for them.
1- https://dappered.com/2014/03/nine-trends-that-can-be-timeless/#comment-1303994138
2- http://questionableadvice.tumblr.com/post/13254318519
And with the opposite sex, more important than being bare-able.
And why are we here if not to improve?
This post is as Marissa Tomei might say, “dead on balls accurate.” It’s an industry term. Once you realize that most models have their shirts and jackets pinned back in the photo shoots everyone references you can begin to properly adjust your expectations. This is not to say there aren’t benefits to be had by purchasing made-to-measure clothing, as long as you understand that it will *never* be perfect. Life’s too short to obsess over the precise amount of cuff showing under your jacket sleeve.
Have to side with Yaniel…there are some people that are really into fashion – more than, say, the enthusiasts this website tends to draw. I’m one of said enthusiasts – I care how I look and feel good when my clothes fit me well, but I don’t overdo it (usually). Then there are the self-proclaimed experts, the people that do it for a living, the people that really live and breathe this stuff and consider it part of their identity. Nothing’s wrong with that. They are no different from the guys on the bodybuilding forum giving diet advice or stereo forums giving av advice. It’s an enjoyable hobby to them and they enjoy sharing their perceived wisdom.
Point is, if you post your picture on the internet to show people what you’re wearing that day, you’re really into your clothes and fit, and you accept that the hypercritical may give you guidance. I think most use it constructively, and I wouldn’t call it unsolicited advice. If looking in the mirror and being happy with yourself is all you need, then end it there.
And the materials count for so much – my best received stuff is usually because the fabric looks great even if it isn’t perfect. I am wearing a Frank and Oak blazer today everyone loves even though it is likely my cheapest one.
Having said that a balance of what others say and knowing what is perfect is a great toolbox – sometimes people love something and they don’t know why but you do. I had someone ask me to take them through the rules when they wanted to reboot their husbands wardrobe and it was a lot easier knowing how to choose for him.
oh. you said perfect FITS. carry on, then.
“Point is, if you post your picture on the internet to show people what you’re wearing that day, you’re really into your clothes and fit, and you accept that the hypercritical may give you guidance.”
No. I disagree. I don’t accept that. I think you’re greatly underestimating how many guys would otherwise jump into a discussion or post a pic or ask for advice but then DON’T because of the jackassery. It’s just not worth it. It’s a huge eyeroll, and it might give those of us who are maybe a little less nuts about how we dress ourselves a real shitty name.
Again, there’s improving, and then there’s becoming hyper-critical to the point where it becomes detrimental to the goal. There’s a line that gets crossed. And on this website, that line exists. For those that prefer that there is no line, I’m happy to suggest they spend their hard earned leisure time on other websites.
But it should be acceptable and perfectly bearable to be a style nazi on a style forum, just as it should be perfectly acceptable to be a grammar nazi on a grammar forum.
Should it be desirable?
I believe so. I don’t post on forums to get pats on the back or false praise. If something is wrong, I’d like to know it. That’s why I post on these forums.
The only issue I’d take is with delivery. “Why would you even post a picture of that jacket when your lapel is .02 inches too wide??” versus “The jacket would look better if the lapel was a fraction of an inch narrower to match the proportions of your shoulders.”
If I’m bothering to post to these places at all, that means I care enough to want to improve, or at least learn.
It’s a slippery slope in both directions. Most guys buy an OTR suit and wear it without tailoring because every time they use it, someone comments that “they look nice today,” so they never realize that it could be drastically improved with tailoring. If every fit posted to a style website gets met with either no comments or only positive praise, nobody would ever improve or understand what actually makes fit A look better than fit B. The people posting just have to understand that just because someone can criticize a part of your outfit, doesn’t mean the outfit is bad and not to be offended.
When did you need to start cursing to prove your point? You’re starting to sound like one of the very people you’re criticizing.
I stand by my comment. If you want advice but you’re not mentally fit enough to post a picture of your clothing and accept criticism (or praise) anonymously, maybe you just need to ask those close to you for advice.
You’re measuring the difference between constructive and non-constructive criticism. If you give the former after being solicited (as you would on a style forum), then you’re not being a Style Nazi at all.
I was basing my argument on this line in the article “Take wearing a tailored, well cut & constructed off-the-rack suit in the real world. There might be “flaws” the obsessed, fit-critique-crazy Statlers and Waldorfs might pick apart if an image was posted to a forum.”
If you’re not, then disregard everything I’ve said. Because in the real world, you’re right.
He used shitty and jackassery. I’m pretty sure he didn’t use them to prove his point, but it’s a writing style choice. Look around the site, while it doesn’t contain a lot of cursing, the word shit and jackass come up pretty often, which I and probably other readers find relatable and appealing.
Why would anyone in the real world come up and critique your clothing fit if you don’t ask for it? If you post your picture on the internet in a style forum, you asked for it.
Even on forums, that level of criticism is counterproductive. You’re rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You could obsess over all those tiny details, but they’re useless. I think that’s Joe’s main point here. Go ahead and do it if that’s what makes you happy, but after a certain point, style forums become more about improving your style-foruming than your actual style.
Of course you’re right, people like me have invested too much time and thought on menswear to look like anything but a snob to the rest of the world. I think at this point I’m a permanent fixture on the other side of that line.
Thanks for the years you’ve spent developing Dappered, it’s an outstanding resource. No buts.
For the most part, as long as you are in shape and the clothes fit well, that’s all anyone notices. Can people tell when I am wearing a cotton blazer instead of a wool one? Not a chance.
All this extra stuff we do here is to be in the top 5%, and it gets pretty easy to be known as “that” guy who is obsessed with how he looks. Be careful.
I had something I wanted to say about this article, but then I clicked on the Jessica Paré link and now I can’t for the life of me recall what it was. So…yeah, good words Joe, you…write good. And stuff.
I believe another old adage is “the devil is in the detail[s]”. Fussing over details can be worthwhile [imo]. It varies from case to case, but often executing the details well will make a noticeable difference.
Opinions on this are clearly polarized, so I’ll just leave it at that. However, you might have misunderstood that adage. It means that there’s often a hidden provision or catch in a plan or contract that makes it unworkable or dramatically different from how it’s otherwise perceived. This is hardly applicable to clothing details. Even if your jacket is 0.25″ too short or you have a tiny wrinkle from an errant sleeve pitch, nobody’s going to notice.
This post is a good example of why I read Dappered every day while I only occasionally spend any time on other sites.
Beware the menswear rabbit hole.
Is this really a problem here? Granted, I don’t spend all that much time on the forum side of Dappered, but you’ve created a content and comment community that values constructive feedback, politeness, wit, and style, most of which exist outside of the hypercritical snark referenced in the post.
Spot on and should be read by all those clothes-obsessed and fit tragics on Style Forum.
That’s why I did the #SDMITRSharpest Dressed Man In The Room Series!
Just be sharp!
http://youtu.be/henGLWevisI
Well done Joe. Good stuff