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bonobos shipping charges

Offered Without Comment: Bonobos Now Charging for Shipping

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bonobos shipping changes and charges feb 11

Via here, and here. Thanks to David L for sending in the tip.

Maybe worth a revisit?

Comments

  3. This the Monomyth. The Hero with a Thousand Faces. The innocent, fresh-faced brand goes on a journey to transform #menswear and returns, grizzled, burdened with the knowledge that the world can never be as kind as it once dreamed it could be.

  5. I pay more for Bonobos because they’re great pants that I know that I can return to make sure I get the right size without penalty. Now it’s sounding like that benefit is going away…so they’re charging more than the other guys for….?

  6. As someone who is pretty ignorant about their products and policies, would someone mind chiming in on what this means?

  7. Still free returns and I’m sure they will run periodic free shipping promotions. How is this different from, say, J Crew?

  8. There aren’t too many circumstances where I’d place an order for less than $125 anyway. I wonder if their clothes are just too expensive relative to other good looking options?

  9. Over the last few years they’ve gone from “Free shipping, free returns for infinity” to “free shipping, free returns for 365 days” to “free shipping, store credit for 365 days, refund for 90 days” to “pay for shipping.”

  10. Funny — this was exactly their April Fools joke last year. Or part of it, at any rate. (Obviously, there was also the girlfriend jeans.)

    What’s the status on returns? Looks like they’re probably still free, but how long is that still going to be the case?

  11. The biggest difference to me is the availability of B&M’s. I live in Boston, so luckily there is a Bonobos guideshop here. But for guys who aren’t as fortunate? Would they be willing to shell out 100+ bucks for pair of pants sight-unseen if they’ve never worn Bonobos before? With J.Crew, there are plenty of B&M’s around to help mitigate those risks.

  12. I worry that this is a sign of a new order in online retail. Obviously, as we all know, free shipping for customers doesn’t mean free shipping for the retailer. The retailer just gets a discount on shipping that makes it a relatively small cost to absorb or simply roll into the cost of the product without the customer realizing/caring. What I wonder is whether fuel costs and other factors are leading shipping services (UPS, FedEx, USPS) either to raise their still discounted rates to all but the highest volume retailers, making it harder for mid to small retailers to absorb the cost, or to eliminate the discounted rates all together, which would end the prevalence of free standard shipping on all orders. How this will impact online shopping is still TBD, but, as others have said, unless free shipping and returns are included, my reality as a wonky-sized and proportioned man is that I won’t buy online unless I’m 100 percent certain of fit. I suppose this will funnel me back to brick-and-mortar stores. The circle of retail life I guess.

  13. I think that’s a little premature. With shipping costs rising they no longer wanted to eat the cost. The other interesting thing to me is how the threshold works with consumer psychology. Their standard chinos are $88 with travel jeans and some other dress pants at $98. Shirts are $85-$95. It’s ALMOST at free shipping but not quite so one may be inclined to get another pair of pants or search for socks or accessories that will put them over the threshold. It’s silly when you think about the dollar amount. But shipping is one thing people hate paying for because it’s the one added expense versus brick and mortar shopping.

  14. Returns are still free, but my understanding is that exchanges aren’t. Basically, if you’re certain of your size and either hit the $125 mark or don’t mind the $8, you should be good. But if you want to try something new, and it turns out it doesn’t fit and you need another size, you get the free return but have to pay for the original shipping and the shipping for the new size.

  15. Okay I’m late to the party but what are the benefits of Bonobos? I remember a few years ago all they sold were boot cut chinos which had me running for the hills. Do their current selection of pants fit particularly well or are they high quality or something?

  16. It makes me sad to see this. I just returned a pair of chinos that I got on sale for $46 dollars and I knew that I would have to shell out some cash to get a new pair in a different cut. My problem is that now I have to pay 8 dollars more for that to happen. Though once I get them they will probably be my last full price pair. Their sales page is stocked with good deals most of the time and if you get a sales code it makes it even better.

  17. This exactly. Unless they have super aggressive plans to roll out guideshops in many more cities?

  18. The strategy to get more people to add something else to their carts to get free shipping and increase ACV feels pretty cheap to me.,..

  20. Well, that’s a shame. I probably won’t be ordering from Bonobos anymore. I just can’t justify their prices when I’m going to have to pay $16 in shipping (total) if something doesn’t fit. If you’re gonna charge me shipping, give me cheap prices to make up for it, at least. (And don’t tell me that I can’t return it if you’re giving me cheap prices.)

  22. While it’s not entirely rational, I think it has to do with the feeling of “bait and switch.” I’m used to paying $5 shipping for J. Crew. I’m used to free shipping for Bonobos. Having something, then having it taken away, is worse than never having it in the first place.
    It’s kind of like advertising. We all grew up with TV and radio advertising so we’re used to it. But when Facebook started putting ads in your feed, it was a “WTF? This is irritating!” moment.

  23. I’m reading this right after reading this New Yorker article about brand loyalty:

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2014/02/17/140217ta_talk_surowiecki

    Despite what that article says–that brand loyalty is eroding because of plentiful options and a hyper-abundance of information–I continue to feel loyal to certain brands, like Bonobos.

    But really, beyond the clothes, the free shipping-free returns was always the cornerstone of the brand (I’ve not always had “great” customer service experiences with them; once they even made fun of me for asking about sweatpants, which they now sell).

    Now, about the clothes. I’ve had numerous quality/fit issues with every shirt/polo I’ve bought from them. I consider all of their shirts ridiculously over-priced. They’re now selling seemingly standard-line (they have “premium,” too) shirts for up to $98. Why not try RATIO for $100?

    I love their slim-fit sweaters, but will only buy on sale. And the pants/jeans? Well, they’re my favorite.

    But really, all things considered, I’m not sure I feel any loyalty to Bonobos anymore. This is sad. When they arrived they seemed to set a new sort of standard for the customer experience.

  24. You are (were?) obviously a loyal customer . . . do you think they’d have been better off raising prices and maintaining free shipping?

  25. The pants are sort of like their flagship item. They have straight and slim fits. They have pretty decent suiting. They have decent shirts and also sell Gant and Gitman. They sell decent jeans with fits similar to their pants. They sell an assortment of footwear, ranging in price from “fair” to “HAH! I’m sorry, for a second I thought you said $700!” They just have some good stuff all around.

  26. Free shipping is just easier. Absorb the shipping costs in higher prices for the pants, I don’t care.

  27. I bought my first pair only because I had been able to go to the local Guideshop and try on several pairs. As a woman who wears mens clothing, it’s a huge risk for me to buy something online only to most likely have to return it. Which, let’s be honest, I usually don’t, so it ends up being a net loss on my end.

  28. I’m going to state this from the perspective of an online seller, because I am one. Free shipping is a trap that hides the actual costs of doing business. It’s been rammed down the throats of eBay sellers (it’s a requirement to get the higher seller ratings/badges) and It deludes people into thinking that shipping is a no-cost service. It costs the company who, as you correctly deduced, have to eat it or raise their prices.

    If you buy a pair of pants for $60, and shipping is free, and you want to return it, that’s awfully generous of them because it costs them $5-$15 to ship it to you, more if they offer free returns. Multiply that cost by the hundreds of orders a day some company’s can deal with for a service that should really be paid for by the customer, it can cripple growth for a company. Large companies with big backing can absorb the cost, but many others can’t. Zappos didn’t start out with free returns/free shipping because it’s not sustainable until you get into big sales numbers.

    I can’t tell you how many times a customer has returned something for a refund and expected to receive a refund on shipping costs as well. No, that’s a sunk cost, and unrecoverable to us. Now I usually make exceptions if we royally f*ck something up, or ship the wrong item, or it gets damaged, but it’s not a given, and clearly stated in our shipping policy.

    Just like going to a restaurant and tipping is a cost of going out, paying for shipping one way or another is a cost of shopping online. It’s often offset by not paying tax for most online purchases anyway.

  29. I see what you are saying but that is not a valid statement because companies are now transitioning into the realm of free shipping & returns. The status quo is changing and this is just something companies will have to adapt for. To charge for shipping is slowly become archaic

    Does that make sense? (not a sarcastic question)

  30. talking about brand loyalty: this is why i love nordstrom. their customer service is amazing. good thing they have some bonobos on their site. i know most online retailers don’t think that customers factor in shipping when buying but i will actively avoid buying something from say J.Crew online due to their shipping thresholds. in the world of amazon, retailers need to be careful they don’t become irrelevant in the eyes of consumers.

  31. I wouldn’t own any Bonobos clothing if it wasn’t for the free shipping/ free returns. Now that I know my sizes in their main items, that’s not such a huge deal, but I would think this deters any potential new customers. Also, what are we paying a premium on these clothes for anymore? $100 for a pair of cotton pants made in southeast Asia, AND you want to claim shipping costs are not already factored into your incredibly inflated prices? An extra $40-$60 just for the fit? Tough sell. Heck, even Jomers makes the same fit (in America) for half the price with cheaper shipping.

  32. How were they able to grow precipitously from a tiny to medium sized company while offering free shipping and a better product, but now that they have offshored production and grown their customer base, shipping is a significant problem? Either expanding their product offerings has killed their margins, or more money is coming out of the company at the top.

  33. I think they just want more profits.

    Can’t argue with wanting to increase profits. That being said, they are going about it in all the wrong ways. Brand loyalty was their thing and now it seems like they are hurting the very thing that made them so popular.

  34. Bingo. ‘S just like netflix. If their customer base flees in large enough numbers, they’ll know that this is the standard that the market can bear…we’ll get an email soon enough explaining ‘in the name of transparency’ that they’ve heard our cries and are restoring free shipping.

    To be honest, there’s far too much choice on the internet for them to believe they’ve got a captive market. I’ll be buying elsewhere…

    But…I,ll be back when they do that 40% off deal.

  35. The pants aren’t awe inspiring….really, they just fit better on the average healthy American, and come in near infinite colors. They’re a little weak in the crotch seam, but I’ve got larger thighs….

    They used to have an amazing shipping policy (which looks now like a part of their start-up phase) and maintained a reasonably honest what-you-see-is-what-you-pay scheme.

    Frankly, they mattered more in the age before internet shopping exploded.

  36. If the shipping cost is that unbearable for some of you, join trunk club. They carry Bonobos clothes with the risk free shipping and returns of not just Bonobos products but of everything they send you. Problem solved!

  37. In case I was unclear, I wasn’t trying to be snippy with my question. Assuming this was necessary to maintain profitability, is it better to roll the increase into the cost of the clothes, or institute shipping fees? I’d say it would have been better to keep free shipping personally.

  38. I didn’t think it came off as snippy. I apologize if my response made it seem like that.

    I’m curious to see how much bonobos makes off of their chinos. Interesting to see what they pay and what the mark-up is.

  39. Nordstrom’s customer service represents the pinnacle, and Bonobos once approached it with their excellent “ninja” service and free shipping/returns, now they are middle of the road in my eyes. I was never a huge fan of Bonobos (I’ve always thought they were vastly over-priced), but this knocks them down even further. I’ve been burned by having to pay for returns a few times in the last few months from various retailers (despite having received the item via free shipping), and its made me realize I’d rather purchase from a brand that has either free shipping/returns, or local brick and mortar stores to make returns/exchanges easy. And I fully agree with your statement re: Amazon – once they figure out how to market menswear well (instead of the visual diarrhea and Mens Wearhouse-like brands you get now) – they will dominate.

  40. Who didn’t see this coming? Next to come down is their generous return policy, which they’ve already started doing.

  41. Yes, I do. Something about the psychology of paying for shipping is a deal breaker for me. But incidentally, why, exactly, do they need to raise prices now? Perhaps their business model is not lucrative. One would think there are many ways they could potentially maintain costs (without charging for shipping). One thought: did you check out their “Winter Sale” this season? It seemed like half the site was on sale. That’s a lot of excessive stock. Maybe they need to get a little better with ordering and back stock. Maybe they need to scale back on the glossy seasonal catalogs. Maybe…I don’t know. I just know how I feel as the consumer.

  42. I didn’t take your question as snippy. If I had the choice, though, I’d prefer to see the “real cost” of the clothes upfront in the clothing prices.

  43. Haven’t read all the comments, but it should be pointed out that in no way was Bonobos “eating” the cost of shipping. They marked up the price of their clothes to cover it. Not all that surprising really. Rather than raising pricing on clothing, they’re choosing to charge for shipping now, which has the same effect. It’s a price hike disguised as a new shipping policy.

  44. I just started buying from bononbos and their free shipping/returns was a huge incentive. I don’t think I ended up sending anything back because I have pretty normal proportions, but I bought some pants that I needed for a new job at full price. I would not have been comfortable shelling out that much without the knowledge I could send them back. I would have gone to Levi’s or another brand that I knew fit correctly.

    On another note, I don’t quite get what is so special about their pants. They’re a little slim in the thigh for me, but overall I don’t feel they’re that much different than my pair of 511s. A bit more rise, which is appreciated, and thicker, more substantial material. But I don’t see paying 2x as much for them versus Levi’s. I’ll only be shopping their sales. On the other hand, the slim fit shirts/sweaters are excellent in the fit category but again over priced unless on sale.

  45. I’ve given Bonobos the old college try. My favorite thing about the company is their return policy. The clothing is average, and similar fits and quality can be sourced from Banana for half the price.

  46. Completely agree. The huge draw to shopping with them was free shipping, try-on, keep if it fit, return if it didn’t. Having to pay for shipping reduces that benefit drastically.

  48. I agree. Banana’s aiden chino right now is $29. So you’re paying $60 more for slightly higher quality and what else from bonobos? Ninja stickers?

  49. Well, they are also pricing themselves $10-$15 above J Crew and charging more for shipping. I don’t think the premium is buying you better clothing either.

  51. Ordered a few things from Bonobos was never impressed.

    Shirts were bad quality and two pairs of paints sizing was way off.

    Pricing isn’t even that competitive.

  52. This exactly I think is one of their problems. I think this is why they instituted the new ‘final sale, no returns’ rules to their sale section. That policy change, and now the pay for shipping change is quickly eroding my brand loyalty. They’re a company after all, I can only like them so much.

  53. Right, these aren’t even Made in America clothes. As you did, I learned most of my sizes through trial and error, thanks only to their free shipping and returns. Without that I’d be lost. Any items I haven’t already sized I likely won’t ever try now.

  54. Similarly, ordering an extra item in completely not your size to get the free shipping on the item you want, then returning the extra item in store feels just as dirty. :)

  57. People could just manipulate the policy. Order enough to get free shipping and return the items that you never intended in purchasing in the first place. Return shipping is free and you would be credited to your original form of payment within 90 days.

    In the end thats a lot of money they might spend dealing with credit card processing and restocking fees. I could be wrong though.

  58. I’m done with bonobos. Fit is sporadic at best. Especially suits and blazers since they tend to chop them. I already wrote them an email and they responded with a blanket statement the same as on their website. Why risk a sight unseen product at that price

  59. Interesting. That may be true, but like the Land’s End infinite return policy, I think Bonobo’s counting on the majority of people to follow the policy as intended. Honestly that’s a lot of work just to get a pair of pants with free shipping.

  60. I agree, it would be a hassle. As a poor grad student, I’ll take that free shipping thou!

  61. Pretty sure that won’t happen. For most retailers who have a free shipping @ X amount threshold, if someone buys X amount, then returns enough to fall below X amount, they credit your method of payment for the return, minus the free shipping you originally hadn’t paid.

  63. Nothing about Bonobos does it for me. It seems like everything they do can be had at J. Crew and other retailers for much less at a similar quality.

  64. I don’t think this is necessarily a trend. Plenty of places offer free shipping above a totally reasonable amount (usually $50). And Bonobos’ limit is not totally unreasonable. I guess I just don’t understand what the premium covers. These are made overseas, just like other manufacturers. The quality seems fairly similar to what I’ve seem from other brands. The fit is excellent, and the customer service is awesome, which makes paying the premium over other retailers no problem in my book. Now they’re chipping away at the customer service, but leaving everything else the same. Bonobos filled an excellent niche that doesn’t otherwise exist in online retail- quality goods with premium service. If you take away the premium service, you start to compete with places like Banana, which can offer much cheaper prices on the same goods just due to volume.

  65. Remember when a Bonobos ninja actually used to show up on comment-threads like this to offer the Bonobos perspective? Seems telling that we don’t see anything like that anymore.

  66. I find this pretty much of an end of the line as far as ordering from them. The Travel Jeans are nice and their Friday slacks or whatever they are called are one of my go tos. But the ability to try on items risk free was the #1 selling point, in my opinion. The quality I can get from Nords or J Crew is equivalent without springing for extra shipping. Shame.

  67. Considering all of these dumb policy changes in the past year or so….I am not surprised.

  70. Comes down to two reasons, 1. It is a botique, so they don’t carry the full selection online, and 2. It is relatively close to me but not necessarily convenient to get to before it closes on weekdays, so if I see something online at work it is MUCH easier to snap it up that way and then return on the weekend if I choose.

  72. This is exactly my thought as well. I don’t mind paying a premium for something better, whether it be in clothing quality or ease of shipping/returns, but there is no premium to their sales model any longer.

  73. For me, their chinos and weekday warrior dress pants really are stellar (fit and fabrics), but not at a 50% markup from other similar brands.

  74. I think you hit it near the end there: Who is Bonobos competing with? In their eyes, I’d imagine they’re competing with J. Crew, who doesn’t offer free shipping online, which is where they get their price points from. Of course, J.Crew has brick-and-mortar locations, so as long as you’re near a store, you can bypass shipping costs. Gap brands don’t offer free shipping either, but the brick-and-mortars combined with its overall size, allow them to at least set a lower free-shipping threshold. It’s easier for them to offset increased shipping costs. Even Zappos is owned by enormous Amazon (and every time I order through their VIP site, which offers free overnight shipping, I wonder how much longer it will last), which I’m sure makes absorbing shipping costs easier as well.

    Bonobos, however, isn’t nearly as large as Gap brands or J. Crew or Amazon. It also has no brick-and-mortar locations to subsidize its online business. All this is why I suspect what we’re seeing is a response to increased shipping costs. It used to be that lower overhead was enough to offset shipping for online-only retailers. Now, I’m not sure that’s the case. And I don’t see shipping costs, which are basically linked to fuel costs, decreasing any time soon.

    Now, to answer your question about what the premium pricing covers, I don’t think it covers anything more than supporting a smaller business with a more curated line. They’ll argue, correctly I think, that customer service is still a premium service and free shipping is only one component of the customer service experience.

  76. My inclination is that Bonobos is doing well and getting popular. Now their venture backers want to see some profits and loss leaders like free shipping minimized.

  77. The Bonobos shop is more like a demo room. They stock their main items in a few colors and sizes to get your measurements and at the end, they bring you to their computer to complete the order. Taxes and everything still such as taxes applies normally. They don’t have much inventory there at all.

  78. Wait, they’re hurting? Am I the only one who noticed they JUST released a women’s line, or offered 10k to a charity of Harbaugh’s choosing if he wears the pants (genius marketing)?

    Maybe they need additional revenue to fund the women’s line. Or maybe the new line had so much invested in it that they are now hurting.

  79. *shrug* It’s not like I was buying from them anyways.

    Not for awhile now. I like the pants I have. But prices have crept out of control, quality is unimpressive, and messing with return and shipping policies skews the risk/reward of buying from an online retailer.

  80. No, but in the past I haven’t minded. I’d much rather pay $60 for a pair of pants that I can easily and conveniently return until they fit perfect, and I know will fit my body. I recently purchased a pair of gavin fit chinos from BR, and I felt like I could open an affordable housing complex in the extra space by my knee. The difference in fit between Bonerbros and BR Gavins, both advertised as straight fit, was huge.

  81. Seems to me you could eliminate a bunch of return shipping problems if you could be clearer on sizing during the order.

    The first pants I ordered from them took 3 orders to get right. They are the best fitting pants I own, and when I want rock-solid pants I’m going back…but if they could come up with some way (maybe an interactive calculator using your actual measurements) it may only leave the majority of returns for people who didn’t like the style when they see it in person.

    I know that’s a bit of a tangent, but thought I’d throw it out there. I’ve been wanting to buy their shirts but have been concerned about fit, and haven’t gotten around to being able to make an appointment at a guide shop.

  83. You’re not far off. I have a friend that works in one of the guide shops and just this week they capped commissions that sales people can make, citing getting to profitability as quickly as possible. It wouldn’t surprise me to see more of this behavior from Bonobos in the near future. Kind of a bummer, I wish they could be profitable without having to cut all the things that make them great.

  84. Their slim fitting shirts fit great in the body (nice tailored cut) but I found that their arm hole were a little small and high. They looked great but didn’t seem to have comfortable movement. I just wish their regular shirts were a little bit more tailored in the body.

  85. It reminds me so much of H&M….I wanted to purchase something for my gf when I heard about the line, but everything was just hideous. I saw a decent amount of shirts in the $200 range.

  86. They have cut everything starting with daily deals / regularly available discounts and more recently investor / friends and family discount codes, generous returns policy, free shipping, etc. Only makes sense, and supports the rumors I’ve heard.

    As a business person, I understand it. As a consumer, I hate it, but if it makes money it makes sense. They must not be. Get a solid run rate profitability without the noise of discounts, shipping losses, etc. and seek an exit.

  88. Three years ago, this was one of the only brands with great fitting (albeit very pricey clothes). This couldn’t be further from the truth now, and they only seem to be getting pricier. Customer service was industry unique (return whenever, free both way shipping, etc), and has slowly disappeared over time. What makes them any different from any online retailer now, other than higher price (it’s not like any of this is US manufactured unless I’m missing something)? Suspect I’ll only sale shop this site now, if ever (alpha khakis, j crew slim shirts, h+m/LEC/Uniqlo basics are all WAY cheaper, equal quality, fit the same. For gentleman wear, macy’s has basic house brand slim cut suits/blazers now of the same quality at 1/3 the price. So what’s the point?)

  89. edit: I mean “further from the truth” in the sense that MANY MANY retailers offer well cut, good fitting pants, which was bonobos initial “mission”. I still think they make great fitting, but super overpriced, stuff.

  90. Hey Seth,

    I’m one of a few Senior Ninjas here at Bonobos. Thanks for speaking up. Crucial as we roll this type of policy out.

    This thread has had the serious attention of not only the Ninjas, but of the entire company. Cannot even begin to tell you how valuable this feedback is. Any lack of speaking up from a Ninja side only is a result of us really wanting to digest the scope of the opinions being shared here and in our personal email queue. Two days of digesting these really well thought out comments/emails has been enormously helpful, and beyond anything has reinstated the fact that we have a pretty boss customer base.

    Just for the sake of emphasis, we really are appreciative of these comments, and will continue to listen intently and update customers if need be. Transparency continues to be the name of the game, but we don’t want to offer it haphazardly!

    Hit us back if you have other questions. Here or via email (ninjas@bonobos.com) is lovely!

  91. Hey guys,

    Adam here, one of a few Ninja managers at Bonobos. Been watching this comment thread with enormous interest. Can’t thank you enough for your opinions. We’re listening, we really are!

    To this specific section wanted to clarify how returns will work in regards to our new shipping charges. Exchanges are still free! If you choose to return your old product and exchange it for a different color (our website doesn’t currently allow that), just call up the Ninjas who will be able to place your replacement order with you over the phone, free of a shipping charge.

    We will never deduct the cost of return shipping from your refund either. The only thing we won’t refund is the cost of shipping on your original order.

    Hope that sheds some light on that piece at least. Keep these comments coming!

  92. That’s a much more palatable policy, Adam. Thank you for clarifying. Obviously, I’d prefer free shipping or a lower kick-in point for free shipping, but knowing that exchanges are free eases some of the risk in trying new fits or styles.

  93. After thinking it over, this might be a feature, not a bug. Bonobos is encouraging customers to order two pair if they’re not sure about the size, and send back the one that doesn’t fit. Or if a color’s a little hard to envision online, order the item in two colors, and send back the one that doesn’t work.

  94. Interesting. Trying to get a profitable year or two on the books is pre-IPO behavior.