Hugh & Crye Counselor point collar dobby – $85
Plenty of you guys have sent in style tips about the D.C. based shirtmaker Hugh & Crye. They’re one of many next-level shirt companies that claim better quality and a better fit, with prices starting in the high double digits and running into the low $100s. That’s a lot for a shirt, but some seem to swear by them and their fit system. Instead of neck and sleeve sizing, they use a height/build chart, or a fit finder widget that asks two questions. But here’s the problem:
What if each of these methods gives you two different answers?
At 5’10”, 165 – 170lbs with not much junk weight on my frame, I’m in-between sizes for Hugh & Crye. My neck size is 15.5, and my jacket size is a 38-39. I usually swim in a 40. Here’s their two methods for getting your size:
Method #1: Their fit chart
According to the chart (scroll to the bottom over here), my measurements put me in the average/slim square. All that gym time for Slim instead of Athletic? Aw. Man. Anywho, it’s also worth noting that there is overlap between the types (slim: 145 – 185lbs, athletic 155 – 205), but the next step up would be a no-go. To move up from average/slim to average/athletic, I’d be looking at a 16-17″ neck shirt, with a 40-42 chest. That’s not going to work on me.
Method #2: Their Fit Finder Tool
Meanwhile, their fit finder tool (scroll halfway down here) tells me that I might just be an average athletic. It just depends on how boastful I want to be, since they ask for height and then for you to identify your body type.
Look, I asked Mrs. Dappered. She said I looked most like dude #3. So, there. Not trying to pound my chest here. And after that designation, the fit finder then told me I was “Average Athletic”.
Average Athletic? Or Average Slim?
I chose average slim. There’s no way I want a 40-42 chest according to the fit chart for athletic. Not happening.
The Results
Again, these shirts aren’t cheap. Retail prices start at $85 and head well into the $100s. Most of their shirts are made in India, with higher end fabrics. The shipping was fast, they’re packaged nicely, and they do appear to be really well made. Buttons are nice and thick, the button holes have noticeably nice stitching, and the collars feel solid. The cotton on this particular dobby weave shirt felt a little scratchy out of the box, but it’ll probably soften up in the wash.
Could be trimmer at the front, and the back seems to pull on my frame.
The fit is good, but not great. Again, I seem to be an in-between with Hugh & Crye, and that “should I go with slim or athletic?” question cropped up once I got the shirt on. It fit well in some places, but not so well in others. It’s trimmer than most off the rack dress shirts, but still has a little extra around the middle. Meanwhile, instead of a box or side pleats at the upper back, this shirt has darts on the lower back. Nothing on the upper. Which was something I felt before I saw, since my shoulders and back felt restricted. And on camera, it almost appears to bulge out just a bit around the mid section (no, I haven’t been hitting the hamburger shack).
The collar is tight, and no pleats, but darts at the lower back?
The Bottom Line
This was an odd one since I seemed to be in-between sizes, and the end result was a shirt that was too tight in some places (collar, upper back), yet too big in others (mid section + lower back). The good news is that Hugh & Crye seems to have a loyal following, they just released a new set of great looking blazers, and their customer service seems top notch. But for me, personally, Hugh & Crye… and I… just aren’t a good fit.
Have any of you tried Hugh & Crye? What was your experience? What’s your take on all of these shirt makers claiming better fits? Have you found a next-level shirting company that you love? Leave it all below.
I wouldn’t write them off right away. It really depends on the person – I have two close friends that swear by Hugh and Crye, they were able to find perfect fits. They also drop into the 60s on sale. I plan on visiting their shop in DC to try some myself.
I think I would struggle with the fit chart also. Tall athletic seems closest, but I’d have to get the sleeves shortened.
According to that sizing system, there is nothing that would fit my combination of arm length, chest size, and neck size. They simply don’t make a shirt that fits me.
Just go shopping, find the brand, style and size that fit the best and keep to them.
Mine is Sara slim fit S.
I purchased a shirt from them and I love the material. Its very light and good for the Florida heat. However I didn’t like the fact that there were no collar stays and the sleeves are pleated causing the material to puff out at the wirst like the picture above.
While MTM online is never a guaranteed I would still go for companies that do detailed measurements. You can fudge some measurements, but shoulders and waist are not negotiable. Even places like ratio-clothing are suspicious to me since you cannot specify waist or shoulders. They assume those measurements based on less important measurements like length.
Zara
I love the shirts but struggle with the size myself. I went with the “average/skinny” and they fit great except for the collar. Just got a few extenders and tI am all set. They have great sales throughout the year where you can pick up some of the “casual” shirts for around $30-$40 dollars.
Hmmm… I’m always trying to figure out how to get a better fitting shirt. Their fit finder tool put me in “average broad” which even though I’ve got a little belly, I’m pretty sure is gonna be all kinds of loose and billowy. The chart has me either tall athletic, or short broad. At 5’10” I’m neither tall nor short, but given arm length I’d be more inclined to go tall than short. As per usual, neck size is the killer. I’m not sure they sell a single shirt that will close comfortably around my neck. Also the back darts look terrible to me, so I’m gonna take a pass on these guys.
Thanks for the review, Joe. Sorry to hear that the fit wasn’t spot
on. If there’s anything we can do for you or your readers, please let us
know. Feel free to call or email at any time: service@hughandcrye.com
or (202) 250-3807
We’re here to help,
Phil
Hugh & Crye
Really not that excited by this… and at these prices, I’d rather do MTM. Honestly, I’ve gotten great fits off Indochino’s system and now that they have the “premium fabric” shirts, I’d probably go there if I wanted something high end. Otherwise, I’m always happy with the Tyrwhitt tailored/extra slim fits.
I think I made a similar comment in the last eliminator, but I don’t see the appeal in spending close to $100 for a shirt with such an inexact measurement system when you can get MTM shirts in (or near) that range.
I also disagree with the fit assessment – at least from the pictures. Unless you’re going for the skin-tight look, I think a cleaner tuck would correct the middle ‘bulge’. It also looks like the upper chest is a little tight – the pic shows some strain on the upper button.
The darts look to be in the right place, but they don’t look very clean. That could just be an issue with how the shirt is tucked in, because it looks like a mess back there.
So far for me it’s Ben Sherman XXL. I used to write them off as only for skinny guys, but it turns out it works for me to size up a couple of sizes in a skinny guy shirt.
That’s a new one. Criticizing someone’s ability to tuck in a shirt
It doesn’t have anything to do with the tuck. I tucked and retucked. All the photos showed that strange bulge. It’s just not a good fit for me. Really need some pleats on the upper back I think.
Some people say that H&C are the best fits they’ve ever had but I think it’s too much of a risk when they don’t post up measurements online and have such obtuse sizing. If I don’t try it on in person I’m not going to gamble on how fit they think I am, I’m going to buy something else I can depend on or even go MTM for the same money.
Has your team considered posting shirt measurements online?
Until there is a swimsuit or underwear edition of Dappered we are just going to have to trust Mrs. Dappered that you are that ripped. 😉
Huck does make a good point. I wonder how it’d look with a military tuck.
Still wouldn’t help the upper back or the tight collar. And, while I don’t usually military tuck, I don’t have similar issues with other shirts.
Just not for me I guess.
I mean no disrespect but at the $85 price point, you might as well spend a few extra bucks and upgrade to Ratio’s made to order shirts.
Joe – I think it would be great to do a comparative round up review of these new shirt companies. Been looking for a solid “go to” in this department.
That’s sorta my feeling.
THIS.
Which is why this confuses me, especially at that price. At least with Ratio you can get some measurements and it is easy to dial in the fit with customer service. Plus it’s a USA made shirt…
I agree though that the darts are in the right place for a shirt that is darted and not pleated.
I have to say that I now realize that shirts with a tapered cut for the waist, instead of dart, with back (shoulder) pleats allow for much better movement.
So a Skinny guy that weighs 125-138lbs is supposed to wear a 36in chest shirt? Negative, ghostrider.
Agree with you on the tapered cut + pleats (especially shoulder instead of box) = best movement, at least for me.
I don’t think I’ve worn a shirt with darts since I used to wear Express 1MX in their closer “fitted” fit. But I can’t recall if they had pleats of any kind on the back.
Agreed, while some of the new guys in town might not be for everyone I think it would really broaden the brands Dappered can cover.
I like the way they fit, but I’m solidly in their short/slim size range. The fabrics, collars, etc. are all really nice. Considering many J Crew casual shirts run $80 or more (not on sale) and give you XS-XL with maybe a slim fit option (which in my experience is still pretty roomy) H&C prices aren’t outrageous. They’re not JC Penny/Target cheap but they’re not super-pricey either considering the quality of the materials.
But, if you know your measurements and fall outside one of the sizes on their size grid, you can probably get a better fit from a MTM place. It may take a few tries, in my experience, to get a good fit from a place like Ratio. Surprisingly, 38″ varies a lot depending on who’s doing the measuring and/or tailoring. But, once you’re dialed in you do get a very nice shirt that fits perfectly.
From the hip: Ratio or Ledbury. My two favorites.
Or, Merona + Tailoring.
What size is your chest then?
As a DC native I stumbled across their store in Georgetown, Philip and Andrew remember me everytime I stop by and provide great customer support! I have a few of their shirts which have quickly becoming my favorite shirts in my wardrobe (casual and dress). Their “Athletic Tall” fits me perfectly (6’2 210).
REALLY glad to have a comprehensive review like this for a shirt I was considering. It seems like when a dress shirt gets into that price range, there needs to be more options when it comes to measurements and fit, not less. I think these guys would be doing themselves a huge favor by using a standard sizing model most men are familiar with.
Right. Got mine. Merona (post tailoring), Nordstrom (tailoring would help), and Ratio (god love em’)
I’m 5’8″ and I don’t have an issue with their shirts staying tucked in, and I wear the slim/short. I agree that they are very well made – the collars, cuffs and fabrics are reall nice.
I tried the fit finder and it said I was Average/Athletic, but knowing my own measurements that shirt would be way too small. I am 6′ 220 lbs. with a 17.5″ neck, 44 inch chest, and 33 inch waist. The broad I think would billow too much and the athletic would be too small in the shoulders and neck.
If this is supposed to be a quasi made-to-measure shirt company, why don’t they let you have it made to your measurements?
34.
The Express 1MX Extra Slim XS fits slightly too tight but it’s the best OTR option I’ve found.
Will I get booed if I admit that the $14.99 H&M Easy Iron slim fits are a go-to shirt for me off the rack?
I’m a 34 too. 34.5 actually. I always wanted to try Express shirts, but they’re expensive to ship in Canada.
The problem is that the Small is really about 2 sizes larger than the XS. The XS in the fuller cut misses the mark on fit for me. The search continues.
my ratio shirt is my only custom shirt but its by far my favorite
Did you try Uniqlo?
I’m tall, 6’6″, and slim so finding shirts that weren’t circus tents has always been a struggle for me. Six years ago a friend introduced me to Maxwells travelling tailors and I’ve never looked back.
These guys travel round Canada and the US, rent a hotel suite and set up shop. You go and get measured, select fabric, select styles and put your order in. The shirts are then made in Hong Kong and will arrive within six to eight weeks.
The top of the range Italian fabrics will set you back in the low triple digits for a shirt, but I now have shirts that a: last forever and b: fit me perfectly. The best thing is that you can discuss fit with a guy who really knows how to measure you. I’ve yet to be disappointed by these guys.
Yep, by this chart, I’m apparently short/broad or tall/athletic. Average/athletic has too small of a neck, and the sleeve is wrong on the other two. But, then, this is normal for me: Apparently, nobody expects someone with a 42″ chest to have a 17″ neck.
I feel this is going to be a very, very unpopular post. But I have a problem with Hugh & Crye. It’s a shame since I’ve been to their shop as well, the guys who run it seem to be really nice, and I like to see businesses succeed.
My problem is NOT that their stuff is made overseas, which they have readily admitted on their site is due to it being cost prohibitive in the USA…but it’s because they market themselves as so American. The names of the shirts are Teton, Rushmore, Aldrin, and so many other things as American as baseball and apple pie.
Beyond that, they tap into the American heritage even further in their descriptions…take the Rushmore for instance: “One of the most iconic of American monuments, Mount Rushmore is a juxtaposition of American culture, heritage and landscape.”
Description for the Aldrin: “Our Aldrin shirt is a member of a series of dress shirts that are designed to hearken back to the time of the Space Race and the era of the iconic American worker.”
I don’t have any problem buying products made overseas, and admit that “Made in the USA” labels don’t factor into my purchases. But if you are going to make your shirts overseas, I just can’t support the marketing aspect of basing almost everything about your business (besides the fit) on selling Americana.
Congratulations on succeeding so much and having such a loyal following, I don’t mean that with any hint of sarcasm at all. But the fundamental idea of selling “America” with foreign made products as your bread and butter rubs me the wrong way.
Seems to be most of these companies hit in the $125-175 range. Any suggestions for $50-90 range? Or am I stuck with tailoring on cheaper brand shirts at that range?
Darts are a tailored version of the military tuck, so that wouldn’t fix it and it would just look weird.
I guess their one advantage over MTM is that they have a good return policy.
Joe – are you going to try to exchange for an Average/Athletic?
Looks like my boys here in D.C are finally getting some recognition. I’ve purchased around 10 shirts from these fine gentleman. I’m 5’9″, 165-170; The majority of my shirts are Average/Athletic. I have purchased some Short/Broad only because the sleeves are a tad shorter, but I think I’ll stick the A/A. H&C just released their blazer which I will be buying here shortly. Cheers H&C!
if only the materials they used was better quality. I bought one of these for cheap and found that the fit was great on me as well.
Seems like a lot of guess work….. And the fabric/fit still not perfect. Have you ever tried a J. Hilburn shirt? Would be happy to get you fit for one! May change the way you shop for shirts – why try to get the look of a custom shirt when you can actually get one. Prices are competitive too.
Great shirts but I found Average/skinny to be too loose around the mid section, just way too much fabric around the waist which creates this wrinkly muffin top mess around my stomach when i tuck the shirt in. The sleeves, shoulders and chest were on point though so i cant complain too much. I really wanted to become a fan of this company, I love these small online specialty shops.