Ask A Woman: How to make the best of a less than ideal situation.
Ask A Woman: How to make the best of a less than ideal situation.If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. And don’t worry, your identity will be protected too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com
Hi Beth,
I am an educated man (UCLA ’03), who currently, after a string of reasonable bad luck and a stretch of mostly treating my twenties as an excuse to be a lazy vagabond with sporadic work experience… well currently I am living with my parents. In the house I grew up in. I’m 33.
I am currently employed 3 days a week at Dick’s sporting goods and receiving Social Security checks for Bipolar illness. All has calmed down and I’m ready to start back into dating life again. I am starting to spend what I can on clothes upgrades and good grooming habits, getting a respectable resume together, etc. and I want to take that next step into a positive relationship that will continue to move me forward in life (meet new people, explore things, have great sex) rather than backward.
Any tips for a guy in my situation?
Thanks,
Justin
Hi Justin,
Well the good news is that there are more and more people in your situation. Wait a minute. Is that good news? Maybe not for society but it’s good news for you, since your situation is becoming less a Wayne’s-World-cautionary-tale and more the standard. In other words, twenty-somethings (and some thirty-somethings) all over this country are taking longer to graduate, find stable employment, move out of their parents’ home, commit to long-term relationships, and do all that other stuff that we’ve decided makes humans into adults. There are several dozen theories about why this is the case (see articles here, here, and here). In your case, let’s add a serious health issue (bipolar illness) to the mix and say who cares that you’re coming late to the party, we’re glad you showed up.
Ladies…the pleasure of their company could be yours. Get in line.
You say you’ve started to take care in your dressing and grooming habits, which is great, and that you’re working on the resume, another important step. I’m not going to tell you living at your parents’ house is not going to affect your dating life. It will. There are many women for whom this is a deal breaker. They won’t give you the time of day. You probably guessed this, right? For the remaining women who are more…open-minded?…you’re going to have to strike a balance between being honest, being optimistic, and having a sense of humor about your situation. Do not, do not, do not lie to potential dates, whether through online dating services or gals you meet out and about, about the truths of your current life. No need to make it the first thing you talk about, but if the topics arise, you have to come clean.
Here’s where you need to master nuance. Be upfront, make a joke about it, say you’re working to change it. You need to show these women that you’re not satisfied with the status quo, but you’re also not a sad sack who’s feeling sorry for himself. And you have to be self-deprecating. Don’t pretend that it’s not a little funny, a little pathetic that you’re living at home. Make a joke, but don’t linger there.
Again, it may be hard to meet women given what you’re currently going through. But keep at it. Keep working on improving your life, too. It’s fine to try and convince women you’re not that guy, but make sure other areas of your life prove it, too. Get involved. (Regular readers will recognize this as my impression of a high school guidance counselor, a frequent occurrence on AAW.) Develop your interests and hobbies; read stuff; follow a team; exercise; learn how to cook; volunteer. If you can make the rest of your life and self interesting and desirable, you’ll be a guy who just happened to have some bad luck but is turning things around.
Good luck meeting your Cassandra. Who’s Anthony, who’s Anthony?
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
Can we dispense with the whole idea that twenty-somethings (and even some thirty-somethings) living with their parents is bad for society, or even bad for the individual? I mean, sure, being college-educated, but employed part-time at a retail establishment is bad for society, if that’s a common sort of thing — and, yeah, that sort of thing IS too common these days.
But living at home? It might not be culturally acceptable to live at home past college (or even while in college, sometimes), but it’s asinine that we think that way — and we’re one of the only cultures in the world who does. And, hell, even our own culture didn’t really reject the idea of living at home until quite recently: It’s really just in the last 50-100 years that we’ve decided everyone should move out as soon as at all possible.
What’s wrong, really, with liking your family enough to stay living at home? Living at home saves money on a whole host of things. By living at home longer, you could save more money while working, with the intent to buy a house sooner; or if you don’t ever mean to own a home, then you at least have more opportunities to save. Or, hell, don’t save — we’re a culture enamored with consumerism, right? So, you might as well live at home and just have lots of extra disposable income, which you can use to buy more things.
Yeah, pragmatically speaking, living at home is going to affect your dating life. Ideally, though? It really shouldn’t.
So, follow Beth’s advice: Don’t bring the subject up immediately, because then you’ll look angsty about it. Don’t lie about it. But, more importantly, don’t listen to the idea that you’re “pathetic” for living at home. You’re not. Very few people are, and we need to stop telling them otherwise.
My opinion is the exact, polar opposite of yours.
While the idea of adults living at home is culturally nuanced, like jdw says, I think there is a reason for that. But I’m not trying to start a debate about that, so, if Justin is trying to get into the dating scene, this will be a challenge. You have to understand why that is and deal with it.
Most women, when given the option, will desire an independent man who shows all signs of being able to make decisions for himself and provide for himself and, eventually, a spouse. I think this is the root factor that will make dating while living at home a challenge. The stereotypes about guys living with their parents are just too damn strong to ignore that. But you can do it!
I can tell you that being defensive and calling people “asinine” for being put off about you living at home is not going to get you any closer to making a new lady friend. Like Beth says, you’ll have to have a sense of humor about it but know that it is, however unfortunate, a red flag.
So until we can change the perception of all Western culture…
Justin, just be a gentleman who is honest about living at home so you can get your life together and you’ll succeed. Most women will respect that and can be ok with it provided your not on a date in your parent’s basement and yelling, “MA! Where’s that lasagna?!”
If someone is turned off by you living at home, don’t be a douche and berate her for thinking that way. Just move along.
Meh…there are degrees. The 23-year-old living at home while working so that he can pay off his student loans faster or save for a downpayment is VERY different from a 33 year old slacker, in my opinion.
I find this has a lot to do with cultural divides as well.
In my family’s country of origin, it’s often the norm to stay at home especially before getting married. Even after getting married. This is our situation and my wife couldn’t be happier. (Except when we have kids. Then it’s definitely time to move out.)
In most cases it can even be preferred: it shows signs of a richer family that can afford a larger house in which to live together. Often times with three or more generations under the same roof. What is the norm here? Leaving our parents in ‘rest homes for the elderly’ and kicking our youth out of the house ASAP. This promotes what?
I liken it to the way that we’re fed ideas about consumerism and the, “free market,” and how the idea that our country’s ideals can only prosper if everyone does their duty and moves out when they’re 18, buy as much stuff for ourselves and our children as possible, and die with the most stuff.
More ‘freedom’, more ‘independence’, more selection of ‘stuff’ from which to spend your hard earned money isn’t what makes people happy or prosperous.
I’m not saying moving out ASAP is going to make you more or less of a man, but neither is staying in.
But it really does depend on the situation and the man. Always.
I love that NYT article, “What Is It About 20-Somethings?” I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked it up, cited it, or sent it to people. I’m just hiding in grad school for about forever.
Eh, I currently live at home since I finished grad school last year and I have a gf, so it’s doable. Beth’s advice is spot on here, as that was pretty much how I handled the situation.
Bottom line, you can’t take care of her and provide for her and a family if you can’t even take care of and provide for yourself. Get a FULL-TIME job. Get your own place or save up until you can afford to do so. Comb your hair. Make your bed. Be a man.
There is a lot of personal growth that occurs while living independently, however, and that cannot be discounted.
I think there are two important things to consider: why are you at home and how long do you plan on being there. If you’re shirking responsibility and mooching off your poor folks, then you probably deserve the rejection you’re getting. You’re not showing any signs of maturity or being an adult.
I have a steady well paying job, no debt, plenty of money saved up, and I’m personally considering it due to my parents recent health issues and the desire to help them out. I’m also debating some pretty big life decisions as well including settling down where I am now and buying my own house in the very near future. I have an exit strategy and I’ve flat out told
my folks if I did move back I would be paying them rent or at least paying the bills. I don’t think this makes me less of an adult or less independent then some of the 20 or 30 somethings I know. And ideally people (i.e. women) would understand. But if spent my life worrying about everyone accepting my decisions and basing my choices off them, that doesn’t really make me independent either.
Ah yes, people that have extenuating circumstances clearly are not men. Those with mental health needs that are trying to sort out their life, also clearly not men. Thank god for this wisdom, though. Now that you told him to be a man, I think he just might.
I have an Argentinian friend who got married a couple of months ago and until then he had been living with his family. He is 30yrs old. He lives in Argentina and it’s normal for men to live at home until they get married. He now owns his own house. The thing is in the US, age matters. There is a legal age for everything (1 for driving/1 for drinking/1 for gambling/1 for voting, etc…some can differ by state) and there is the implicit ones (moving out for college at 17-18/hitting cancun at 18/getting your bachelor degree by 21-22/getting married b4 you hit 30/have your life together b4 30 (meaning you don’t rent, you own/you climbed the corporate ladder/or have your phd).
There is also a stigma attached with living at home past a certain age. You don’t know how to cook/do the laundry/take care of yourself independently, which could be true of false depending how you were brought up.
I’d say to the OP, get roommates if you can. If your bipolar disorder is manageable, living outside your parents house will tremendously benefit you, it will help you mature in different aspects of your life as well as living 100% as yourself without boundaries.
For the GF issue, tbh I don’t know. You have to prioritize what you want first, gf or moving out? You “could” find that gf, move to a new place together, but it is harder, longer, and doesn’t yield as much results as moving out yourself, doing things that you love, finding that gem, that connection that will be your gf or more.
I sense some snark in your response, sir.
+1
Quit being an enabler Greg. It sounds like he’s got enough of those in his life, including his mother and our government.
Sorry, I have a tendency to express my opinions online in a polarizing manner, at times. These are the troubles, I suppose, that come with a lack of proofreading.
I wouldn’t call a person “asinine” for being put off by someone living at home. I *would* say that they should be more open-minded and approach the subject with a new perspective to see if they can grasp why it’s acceptable for someone to live at home.
On the other hand, overcoming stereotypes is difficult, even if we objectively realize that we’re swayed by them. I live in the northwest, so if I see a girl with suspiciously blonde hair and a suspiciously deep tan, I’m probably going to form certain opinions about her, and until I’ve been personally confronted with proof that these opinions are wrong, they’ll stick, to some degree, even if I know it’s irrational. I’m only human — so are women who are put off by a guy living at home.
What I took issue with in Beth’s post, though, was the use of the phrase “it’s … a little pathetic that you’re living at home.” I know she wasn’t saying it in a manner which was directed at him, but I think it’s something we need to move past, as a culture, especially as our economy exists right now. But, hey, maybe that’s just me.
Oh, definitely. If you’re living at home to mooch off your parents, that’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
Full disclosure: I’m 26, and I live with my parents. I don’t pay rent, but I don’t mooch.
I guess the question is: What makes a slacker?
There’s a lot of personal growth that occurs while living with your parents, especially as an adult. It’s a different sort of personal growth, but *it* can’t be discounted, either. I’m just saying: We shouldn’t be so quick to judge someone based on their current life circumstances!
All I know is this, my wife and I started paying down our first house when we were 25. Had we stayed and lived in our parents’ house, we would be rolling deep in cash! One can only dream, haha,
As someone who’s been in both situations, I can tell you I’ve easily had more personal growth living on my own. I see in another comment that you presently live at home. Not sure if you’ve been on your own yet, but the level of responsibility, discipline, and maturity you (hopefully) gain easily outweighs the… pragmatism, appreciation, and humility (?) you gain by living at home.
I really don’t see how the two compare. And I’ve had to move back home after grad school after being on my own for years. Can’t wait to get back out on my own in a month or two.
I agree with your first sentence that if you can’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of others. Fully agree. Put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.
I disagree with your “be a man” and agree with Greg. Case in point: I take it you don’t work with Veterans? They are more of a man than you or me to stare down a bullet. Many of them can’t get a full time job. Many have PTSD or if not, they still have traumatic memories and other issues that hamper them from fully reintegrating into normal society.
I guess in your mind, they are not men. Or you will reply with some rationalization of why Veterans are men, but people who have mental challenges and have to work out more issues in their lives like the OP are still not men.
Or you can just remain silent and take this “like a man.”
I agree with you. I’m Chinese and I understand the whole “culture” of living with your parents. And the first thing that every Chinese male and female friend (career or no career) tells me is: “I’m tired of living with my parents.”
Food for thought.
The point is “freedom” and “independence” gives you “choice.” It doesn’t give you happiness or prosperity, but it gives you the ability to choose your own path.
You can choose to live at home and take care of your parents when they get older. It’s your choice. No one will judge you.
Now on the flip side, I’m Chinese and understand that whole culture of living with your parents, taking care of them, etc.. I can tell you about my experiences:
Every Chinese and Indian friend I know, career or no career, when you have honest conversations with them, they say, “I’m tired of living with my parents.” They of course are CAGED by their should/shouldn’t thinking: “I shouldn’t think that way, this is the way it is, it’s tradition, it’s culture… I’ll just suck it up and be miserable about it… until I get married. Then I can finally move out.”
Every adult Chinese family i know caring for an elderly father/mother/relative, when you have honest conversations with them, they say, “I’m tired of taking care of my father/mother/relative. In a rest home, they can get 24 hour care by medical professionals. The home-care nurse I’ve hired is not the same.” BUT they are CAGED again by should/shouldn’t thinking, “… but I shouldn’t think that way, this is the way it is. it’s tradition, it’s culture. I’ll just suck it up and be miserable about it… until they die.”
It’s all about choice. These anecdotes reflect what happens you don’t have choice.
I actually come at this from the perspective of being a 23 year old who lives independently. I mean, do people realize what rent is these days?! It’s insane. Basically unaffordable on an entry level salary. Everyone thinks it’s so great I live on my own, but I am basically broke and can’t date because I have next-to-no disposable income after loan payments/rent/food. I guess that’s the personal growth everyone’s talking about…
“Freedom” and “Independence” are relative and arbitrary.
All I’m saying is that there are many types of cages and many types of traps and every one of us should be more mindful of them.
Free will can be an illusion. Especially in these complicated days.
Agree with you 100%.
There are some of us who recognize that humans have lived productively on the earth for thousands of years. Only within my lifetime, and only in the most highly developed countries where the poor people are fat and have big screens, have doctors decided that every little personality quirk is a full blown disease that is worthy of our highest forms of charity and sympathy.
Prior to James Taylor and his ilk sissifying the civilized world, people used the word “malingering” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malingering
Curious, the person in question managed to keep his “mental illness” in check in order to graduate college, a feat that only 15% of the population can manage to accomplish, but when it comes time to work, his mental illness is too severe to function. Curious indeed!
Regarding your first point, I agree that overclassification and overdiagnosis are problems modern medicine must face.
On the other hand, only recently have doctors been able to classify “maladies” as things like “cancer” or “heart failure.” Would you disagree with those advances in medical classification and the subsequent advances in treatment?
I agree with you that it is curious on the control of the mental challenge. However, I would also presume its mixed with something we all experience: anticipatory anxiety, which can bring even the most able people to their knees if the situation is perceived to be daunting enough. Since you have able use of Wikipedia, I won’t dive into that deeper.
Until we develop telepathy, I’ll err on the side of empathy. And empathy is different from enabling.
There is a universe of difference between “This x-ray shows you have a golfball sized tumor in your lung” and “Doc, I heard that if I play up being angry I can skip work, then get some legal dope and a check.”.
There is empathy and there is gullibility. I have empathy for a pregnant woman growing a human in their body and shoving it out their privates, BTW they often work throughout their entire pregnancy. It isn’t empathy to fall for a malingering grifter’s con, it is gullibility.
Anticipatory anxiety?? Is that what they call that feeling most people get in the morning when they say “God, I don’t want to go to work today!” just before they suck it up and go to work. Or is it the one I get on April 14th when I have to pay taxes with the knowledge that the money intended for the elderly and incapacitated is being wasted on nonsense?
The military is probably exactly the wrong place for someone dealing with bipolar disorder.
You are in over your head in this conversation and unbelievably off base. You need to look into some of the genetic, biological, and neurological research regarding mental health disorders prior to expressing opinions that go against hard science. Neurological structures, measured brain activity and genetic patterns differ for people with certain mental health disorders (read: most). Additionally, the symptoms of many disorders have neurological and biological roots that cannot be controlled by the individual. Neurotransmitters may not be produced or reabsorbed correctly. We can measure that. It exists and it is not made up. That can fundamentally change the way the brain experiences and interprets a variety of stimuli. People may experience auditory or visual hallucinations. We can also measure that. Again, not made up. Anxiety, panic, stress, can all be helpful but they can become pathological. Bodies can vastly overproduce cortisol, leading to a variety of negative effects and outcomes. Guess what? We can measure that too. Not made up. These can lead to crippling (the use of that word is intentional) symptoms for many. Symptoms that we are still beginning to understand how to treat.
Also, over-diagnosis is actually not as much of a problem as people think.
All of my other points neglected to mention that you are also just generally being unhelpful.
I’m not going to argue with the mod, there is nothing to argue anyway. I don’t need to convince anyone, there are already plenty of people who have the perspectives of both time and space (AKA how things used to be, and how things are in other places) who KNOW that a great deal of the “issues” in the world can be solved by a swift kick in the rear followed by sucking it up and exhibiting some discipline in concert with personal responsibility.
I think comparing 33 year old men with a college degree working part-time retail and veterans of war is a bit of a stretch. Those men have proven themselves and are on the other side of it. Their manhood has been earned in the past. Not so with our friend in the article
Cudos to Beth for choosing this letter to respond to
Thanks for your insights. I appreciated your point of view, albeit different from mine (ala Voltaire).
We can now both suck it up and leave it at that.
I appreciate your insights and reply to my post.
The issue is whether you should be so quick to judge someone. Hence, if the poster was a veteran with PTSD, would you judge him negatively? And if there is a difference, why judge at all? Why not just look at the situation without judging a person? The OP wanted help not berating — would you want insults when you are asking the world for help?
Even if you/me/we walked in someone’s shoes for 1000 miles, it will be a different shoe size and fit and a different 1000 miles.
That is best. People are entitled to their own opinions, now that everyone has given their’s clearly, it is time for a new topic.
We all have the right to judge for ourselves, but not mete out sentences other than our dis/approval and the freedom to express it.