Ask A Woman: Finding inspiration for classic style
If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. And don’t worry, your identity will be protected too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com
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Hello Beth,
I am a 19-soon-to-be-20 university student from Melbourne (Greetings from Australia!), and over the past year and a half, I have steadily become more interested in classic/sartorial-inspired style as opposed to the trend-based fashion that is worn by most of the other guys in my age group.
As a whole I would like my wardrobe to generally consist of items that are eternally stylish, with a few ‘trend-esque’ bits and pieces. I am wondering whether I could pull off this look at all to begin with, or would I just appear pretentious wearing this attire at this age? And secondly, if I can delve into the realm of classic style, where should I start in assembling my wardrobe? Also, it is in the beginning of winter here “Downunder”, so shorts are definitely out of the question.
Regards,
– Arden
Hi Arden,
Wow. I’m feeling very special and very international right now. Next step–syndication! Kick ass, Arden, thanks for reading.
I love this question. You’re never too young to wear classic clothing. Turn a blind eye to Ed Hardy shirts and the distressed denim that looks like someone bleached and then urinated on it, and own your good taste. Where to start assembling your classic wardrobe? Figure out what YOU mean by classic style. I know what I mean, and the guys reading this know what they mean, and my neighbor who goes about his business with a cigarette hanging out the side of his mouth and his t-shirt down to his knees knows what he means. I take that back. He has no idea what classic style is. He also looks too much like my ex-boyfriend, so every time I see him, Soft Cell’s “Tainted Love” starts playing in my head. I digress.
Who are your style icons? What movie wardrobe do you wish you could steal? Figure out what you love about that particular look. Is it the prevalence of well-made suits? The shape of the shoe? Fabrics? If I had to make my own list of classic men’s style it would include: single-breasted suits (favoring two buttons over three), medium-width ties, pointed-toe dress shoes, boat shoes, pullovers with flipped collars, silk/cotton/rayon neck scarves/ascots in masculine prints and colors, Oxford shirts with stiff collars, French cuffs, straight-leg jeans in a medium to dark wash, sleek sweaters.
Inevitably, though, someone will disagree with one of my items (silk scarves for men? what?) or be horrified that I left off something crucial (where are my beloved fedoras?). But this is what classic men’s style means to me–silk neck scarves, while not favored by the typical contemporary man, still look stylish and beautiful to me, and fedoras, while gaining popularity in recent years, still look goofy and dated to me.
I’ve seen old movies with Cary Grant
Several weeks ago I asked readers how style evolves, and the comments that resonated most with me had to do with confidence. Style changes because as you age, you gain the confidence to wear what you really want to wear. When you’re 15, you wear a lot of hemp because that’s what everyone is wearing, and you’d rather die than stick out. When you turn 25, you realize you love pearls, have always loved them, and don’t give a damn if someone else thinks you look like their grandma when you wear them. So I say to you, Arden, figure out what you love about classic style, pick items that flatter you, and then have the cojones to pull it off with fearless elegance.
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send them to: askawoman@dappered.com
wow very passionate post but very good advice
Bravo!
And without leaning on a single SATC reference – congrats, Beth!
As Beth said, I think it’s all about confidence. There are three ways to wear classic clothes in your early 20’s. The one you want to avoid is without cofidence, where you wind up looking like an out-of-touch guy trying to score a date (think Flounder in Animal House). The most popular at that age is the ironic look, whare you’re doing it to stand out for the sake of standing out. It requires confidence to pull off, but in a goofy “I know I look out of place” sort of way.
Of course what you, and likely everyone else on this site, are going for, is walking into a room with a bit of “I look damn good, and I know it” swagger. You won’t necessarily fit in and people will take notice, but in a good way, more often than not. And if someone thinks you’re pretentious, who cares? You’re style is all about you, not who someone else wants you to be. Don’t radically overdress for the occasion (no tux for a frat party), and you’ll be solid.
I just wish I’d learned this lesson a few years sooner. I’m now 28, and I’m still cleaning out my closet from my “wear what people want me to wear” days. And no, I was never confident in the closthes that weren’t “me.”
Another great post.
Although I just had to mention this for the Arden’s sake. The president of Harvard University, Larry Summers, was just quoted in CNN Money saying the following about two men who were undergraduates during the rise of Facebook at his school: “One of the things you learn as a college president is that if an undergraduate is wearing a tie and jacket on Thursday afternoon at three o’clock, there are two possibilities. One is that they’re looking for a job and have an interview; the other is that they are an a**hole. This was the latter case.”So there’s some “outside advice” from a type of person you may encounter in your future that obviously judges people on if they’re dressing appropriately for their age.
Two options here:
1: Mix classic pieces with things the kids are wearing. Like Beth said, we don’t know what you consider classic, however. I don’t recommend wearing poofy shirts a la Seinfeld, trying to resemble a member of the French court in 1732. A tweed blazer with elbow patches would be classic to me and would go well with a nice pair of boots, white shirt, and dark wash jeans.
2: Grow a handlebar mustache and buy some old glasses. At this point, you can dress in pretty much anything from 5+ decades ago and people will just assume you are a hipster.
As a younger person I also find it hard to balance between looking stylish and not pretentious. As stated, I think the best bet is to take classic looks such as dark jeans, well fitting suits (when appropriate), polos, nice oxfords, nice shoes etc and try to look good and feel good, without looking out of place. Also, I think it is important to stay away from things that will make you stand out and look like an asshole. For example, I’m only 23 and going to the all-too-popular sports bars and irish pubs Chicago has to offer, therefore I am not going to be the guy wearing a tweed blazer or blue searsucker pants. It’s not that I have anything against that style, but if you’re wearing that around early 20 somethings, you do look like an idiot.
Also a younger person(19/20yo) in your situation. It seems there is a gentle balance of standing out in a group of peers, but not standing out too much.
I’ve found you can be well dressed and dappered, in a sea of friends who aren’t, but there are some hard to cross lines at such a young age. For instance, I don’t wear blazers or suits anywhere except for job interviews. Simply because no one my age socializes in a blazer unless it’s required of them. Similarly so, tucking your shirt in is also a slippery slope. I do it sometimes, but I’ve definitely gotten comments on why I’m so dressed up.
I look forward until I’m a working young professional, and can wear casual blazers etc. without standing out too much.
For daily wear, dark jeans, oxford shirts, chelsea boots and that’s about as sharp as a 20 year old can get without crossing into a pretentious territory. Sad, but true. Also, a knit tie with a leather jacket every once in a while isn’t going to hurt too much.
I’m in the same boat–19 year old university student who likes to look his best every day. It was said above, but it bears repeating: confidence is key. Imaging walking into a student center populated with people wearing cargo and athletic shorts two feet below their waists, sandals with socks, and two-sizes-too-big graphic tees, while you are wearing slim fit jeans, oxford, casual tie, casual blazer, and boat shoes. You’re going to stand out. But you’re going to stand out in a good way. Sure, some people will give you strange looks, but those will mostly be the girls wearing North Faces, Uggs, and leggings–because pants are SO last year (on another note, it is becoming rarer and rarer to find classic women’s style on campuses as well, which is really a shame).
Anyways. It’s all about having the right attitude. If you look damn good and you know it, show it. But don’t be aloof or pretentious because of it–knowing how to outfit yourself doesn’t entitle you to anything. Cocky is bad, confident is good.
And obviously, dress appropriate to the situation. No three-piece suits to lunch in the dining hall–save those for evening class (I kid).
I frequently get the “Why are you so dressed up?” question. Even if I’m just wearing chino shorts, boat shoes, and a tucked casual oxford. My standard answer: “I’m not.” Because I’m not. Just because my shoes aren’t fit for playing a game of football and my shirt has a collar and no sport team logos on it doesn’t mean that I’m dressed up. It just means that whoever is asking has the wrong perception of “dressed up”. Those are the same people who will show up to a job interview in four years’ time wearing pre-distressed khakis, billowing shirts, and ties with Spongebob on them.
“For daily wear, dark jeans, oxford shirts, chelsea boots and that’s about as sharp as a 20 year old can get without crossing into a pretentious territory. Sad, but true. Also, a knit tie with a leather jacket every once in a while isn’t going to hurt too much.”
“I don’t wear blazers or suits anywhere except for job interviews. Simply because no one my age socializes in a blazer unless it’s required of them. Similarly so, tucking your shirt in is also a slippery slope. I do it sometimes, but I’ve definitely gotten comments on why I’m so dressed up.”
Holy crap!
Some people have a very modest definition of what constitutes “overdressed”. If you are worried about looking “pretentious” just hang out at more upscale places and stay out of the pubs and sports bars. I never bought into the whole well-dressed=a-hole and poorly dressed=humble and modest.
Big part of the problems of the 20s crowd clothing can be solved by simply eliminating obnoxious, unnecessary detailing that is it simply overwhelmed with. Both tops and bottoms targeted at this group include ridiculous prints, studs, patches, distressing, whatever. A good strategy could be to wear the exact same type of clothing, but without the obnoxious details, and then throw in some nice detail of your own. Nice shoes, perhaps, a jacket, even some jewelry.
Well, part of dressing well is dressing appropriately for your environment, and most environments today have swung to the casual side. Being marginally overdressed within those bounds = great. Being overdressed by orders of magnitude = douchey/awkward. Sad, but true, as verified by years of experimentation and observation.
Oh, and a 20 year old probably does not belong in an “upscale establishment”, unless they are a trust fund baby, or a successful entrepreneur/professional, which excludes the majority of college students (unfortunately).
Still, vinman has a point. I’m in that age group, and I, as well as most of my acquaintances, dress ourselves better than the average college student does. When we go out, we try to frequent places that aren’t necessarily more upscale, but that cater to a different crowd than does the typical pub. A blazer works much better at a local coffee house or French bistro than it does at “Bike Night” at the sports bar.
Leaning? Come now, I like to think that I “season” my replies with SATC references. 😉
You could do a LOT worse than simple, well-fitting pants (of almost any color and fabric) and a neutral-color OCBD. If you want to snazz it up a bit, wear some ridiculous color shoes, or a cool bracelet/watch band, or even a cap, if that’s consistent with your schtick, just keep the snazz to one item.
True, casual establishments outnumber upscale nightspots by a considerable margin. But I hardly think wearing a pair of flat front charcoal gray trousers, a white or blue open collar shirt (make sure a tee shirt isn’t showing underneath) and a blazer or casual sport coat is going to create any awkwardness.
And if people give you sh-t and ask why you are all dressed up, just tell them what Donald Rumsfeld used to say: “Because I don’t own any casual clothes. Next question, please.”
Brilliant.
You don’t need to be a trust fund baby to hang out in finer places. Even when I was the proverbial “broke college student” I managed to come up with the $20 or so for three beers at a nice place. No single malt scotch for me back then but at least I was keeping good company. Back then it was $4 for a beer at some pub or sports bar or $6 at a nice place. Hardly a budget buster for most. Besides, become a regular and buddy up with the bartender and you just might start getting some free drinks! I do!
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Exactly. Sports bars are kind of difficult to “dress-up” for without standing out. Wine bars/tapas bars, cafes and bistros are much better options. The lobby bars of upscale hotels usually get a mix of people so nobody really stands out-you have people on visiting on business as well as tourists.
Honestly, everyone (yes, everyone) looks better in a jacket, especially if you have a gut which many American men do if they are over 25. Besides, the jacket keeps you from looking like an off duty waiter if you are wearing black pants and a white shirt.
Being that I live in a major city(not a college town), being well dressed in public restaurants/bars actually works in my favor. The awkward “Why are you so dressed up?” from peers comes at other times: in class, at a friend’s place, etc.
With that said, people are right. You can still look good while dressing peer-appropriate.
This may seem odd to some, but I think the final three Harry Potter movies have my absolute favorite styling, but as a massive Casino Royale (2006) fan, I like a splash of elegance if your wallet and occasions allow it. It is functional without flash, but when you use your personality, they are the kind of looks where people see a nice set of plain/classy/put-together outfits. I am more into the idea of not being standout through your clothes. I think at someone’s party or a wedding, you should look exceptionally cut together when looked at, but you shouldn’t be the most noticeable person because your clothes are glowing more than you, your personality, and the way you carry yourself. Being confident, in shape (if you have the interest) and wearing a great tux or shirt at a party will be plenty standout, so you don’t need to try pulling off a special color scheme or set of silks to get the attention.
As for daily wear, I like the idea of very low branding (sorry giant logo Polo logo shirt lovers) because I think it puts the status element on your shoulders instead of your wallet’s (not that you have to buy cheaper, just that the price shouldn’t dictate people’s impression based on your logos). A simple t-shirt (white, gray, or black) under a nice thermal, henley, button-up (I’m an oxford guy, but plaid works in the classic reds and blues), or sweater (mild v-neck or an undone top one/two buttons works to show the layers). Darker jeans, classic chinos, or nice pants are good for bottoms (sorry, but the more distressed the jean, the more worn it looks so stick to fresher and darker washes to keep the look of finer brands and maintained wardrobes). Over your tops, a jacket will top it off in most cases (you can vary it appropriately from pea coats in the city or at night to trenches to corduroys, leathers, or nice plain pocketed cloth jackets), but I think the occasional blazer is nice if done mildly – many people mess up the jeans and blazer look including me, so I prefer that one gets avoided. You shouldn’t always be a layer lover though, there are many classy looks that you can make for yourself with maybe a nice crew neck wool sweater for a day outside with the family or something. Roll-up the sleeves when you feel comfortable with it and if you want a cleaner look than the layers, buttoning up is great.
Not sure what brands are out there for you, but department stores in my opinion offer nice pieces with stiff and unhelpful styling, so feel free to shop there, but don’t worry if the styling is too posed catalogue to inspire you. I think some nice looks can be found from J. Crew, H&M, and Topman, with great pieces from some of your department store designers, Brooks Brothers, Banana Republic, J. Crew, Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, and more. My favorite retail styling is out of J. Crew and they have pointed towards the idea of renewing traditional pieces as their brand focus. They also pair with some of the world’s classic brands like Alden, Red Wing, and Belstaff (great jackets that Steve McQueen enjoyed).
Play around with some stuff, and you can spin towards cleaner looks that have heavier styling, functional layers and classics, or my favorite, a mix of both. You’ll surely find your spot at some point.
I forgot to mention shoes! I think sneakers are great on your daily wardrobe in whites, grays, blacks, and calmer or classic leather browns (Frye sneakers are my favorite for browns). I like the occasional Converse set for a day out, gray ones are my personal favorite, but I think black plays nice too. You can go with boat shoes if you like them, but I find them awkward so they don’t get into my closet. Lastly, I love boots. Not hardcore boots. Just the nicer, clean ones. Clarks or Alden are nice, but you can find them all over. Desert style is a favorite from Clarks. I am not a big colored shoes guy and navy is probably as bold as I go besides a red set of Converse or original Nike’s for a visit to the park.
Alright, so one last thing. When it comes to accessories, I think the tie should stay formal or job based. Don’t just wear one around because you want to be dressy. I think it has its places and maybe when you get older and have to see important people for dealings every day, then you can put a tie or even suits into the rotation of daily wear, but otherwise, wear those where you know you should be wearing those. Besides that, I am not a jewelry on guys fan, so those random leather wristbands or gold chains don’t appeal to me. Your best friend for a special accessory is your watch. I prefer the simpler watches where time is just about all it tells, no moon cycles, double second counters, or hemisphere adjustments. Date and time is as complicated as I like them, but I don’t pass on the occasional chronograph beauty. I prefer Black, white, or navy faces, but vary it to your tastes. If you like copper or green or something else, go for it. As for the bands, metals and leathers are my favorites, but a sporty black rubber watch or a nice enamel band is nice too. Again, go cleaner looking and not too bold on colors and they should be pretty much fine with your classic tastes.
Thanks for tolerating the novel I typed up in these comments.
At this point, I am just sharing my whole style rulebook.
Hoodies – definitely okay sometimes. I think in plain and mild colors without prints or words, these are great, masculine, and contemporary casuals that are easily used for meet-ups at sports places, friends house, or sports games. If you want to be more narrowed down to traditionals, that is okay, but I think that my opinion on the best men’s styling is the ideas I mentioned above along with being open to a younger and less stiff piece.Track style jackets, being the hoodless and low detail jackets are fine, but I prefer them as an extra layer under a more rugged outer jacket. They can easily be used as an eyesore or too bold for classic, so just got plain as possible to enjoy the cut and collar more than anything else about track jackets. I think hoodies play well with the natural and societal perception of a man’s natural rugged masculinity and a “cool” attitude a la Steve McQueen. It helps your confident, fun side show outside of your usual classic line-up. The casual or contemporary piece on a Saturday or at the monthly football game with the friends can help make sure people don’t think that your daily dressier looks mean you dress up to be a “douche-bag” or have some special goal of old movie star imitation.
And lastly, tie patterns. I say stick with solids because it is less distraction and adds to a flow in your looks instead of any cacophonous nature in your appearance. My collection is solid silk ties only with the only change-ups being from knitted ties that has texture to them. Cartoons, dogs, or even shapes can border on obnoxious pattern to me, so I go without them. Mid-width is definitely classier to me than the skinny ties showing up on teens at the movies or burger places these days.
And it is true about classic women’s style getting rarer too. I wish more girls would take a liking to Catherine Middleton or Emma Watson for style icons.
Thanks for another great article Joe. Your site is one of my daily “go to” sites.
Great advice. Perfect age for this guy to begin thinking about this as he prepares to move into real adulthood, business or higher education. Good advice to suggest using media as a model for his style, and over time he will figure out what’s really “him.”