Ask A Woman: This scenario has all the makings of a country song.
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Hi Beth,
I have been together with my girlfriend going on four months now. It’s been going well and I believe she genuinely likes me, but as good as it is, I’m having issues.
Going into the relationship, she told me that she had had friends with benefits right up until the point we started our relationship. She promised that it would end with them, which I want to believe, but lately she’s been hanging out with these “ex-friends with benefits” alone, getting drinks, going to their places, watching movies etc.
It’s been driving me crazy. I know that she was close to these friends, not only sexually but on a mental/emotional level. For me to ask her to stop being friends with them or seeing them is likely asking for too much, but it gets so hard for me to trust her and these friends when I’m not in the picture.
What should I do?
-Matt
Hi Matt,
I’m sorry you’ve been struggling with your girlfriend’s relationships with other men. Let me just validate your feelings right away—it would bother anyone who was in your position. In fact, it is highly inappropriate for her to continue hanging out with these men, alone, especially during activities like going to their residences and watching movies. (By the way, another word for these activities is dating.) Here’s why.
I don’t take the position that you have to give up friendships with exes when you begin dating someone new. I myself maintained a friendship with my first serious boyfriend for many years after we’d broken up, even when I was with other men. I’ve since lost regular contact with him, but for a long time, he was a good friend. After our history together, which was based first on a solid friendship, it was only natural that we both wanted the best for each other, in a purely platonic way. None of my subsequent boyfriends ever had a problem with it, probably because we kept it to the occasional email, the infrequent lunch out, so it never got in the way of my first priority, which was my relationship with the person I was seeing romantically.
What your girlfriend is doing is not the occasional email, the infrequent lunch out. She is meeting these men alone, in private, and doing so on a regular basis, after having pledged to you that she would sever ties with them. Your emergency radar is pinging because this is not right, not appropriate, not acceptable.
Boundaries are important in navigating the transition between love interest and platonic friend. Just ask the Flecks.
She’s also doing it under the guise of—oh, it’s not like I ever dated these dudes, they were just friends with benefits—as if that’s supposed to make it better. It doesn’t. She had sexual relationships with these men, that means she needs to take special care with establishing boundaries. This is not only for your comfort, but so that these guys understand that her circumstances have changed, thus they should not expect the same relationship they had with her previously. Further, it’s always best to put yourself in a position to make good choices. Sitting on your ex-friend with benefits’ couch, drinking, watching a movie alone–this does not make for a responsible outcome. Why even put yourself there if you’re committed to your boyfriend? Also, you mention that she was close with these men on a “mental/emotional level.” So she depended on them for emotional support and mental stimulation, while having sex with them? How is that not dating?
Really, distinguishing between having dated these guys and having “just” slept with them seems irrelevant because what’s most important is that 1) she had sexual relationships with these men 2) she’s dating someone new (YOU) 3) she’s continuing to see these men alone, in private. Whatever you want to call the arrangement she had prior to meeting you, the fact of the matter is that she is now committed to you, and that means she needs to give up these relationships because she is unable to establish appropriate boundaries with them. I hate to say this without knowing her, but I’m going to anyway–I don’t think it bodes well for her ability to be faithful or committed to you if she honestly thinks this behavior is acceptable.
Matt, I can’t tell you for sure what’s going on in your girlfriend’s head or what she’s doing behind closed doors, but this situation is super sketchy. This is not a case of a boyfriend being overly paranoid or controlling. Your reaction is totally justified. Trust your instinct here—if you think she’s messing around on you, she probably is. Certainly, if she won’t let go of these “friendships” I think you have to consider letting go of her.
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
Yikes! Makes me feel sick to my stomach just thinking of being in his shoes…
She’s definitely sleeping with them. I’d cut ties immediately before she ends up pregnant and tries to stick you with the bill.
Matt, you should move on. I know it’s always easier said than done, but what’s the benefit of continuing to let her see these “friends” or the benefit in trying to keep her from seeing them altogether? Better to waste four months than more time.
Just tell her you’d like to be friends with benefits…
First thing I thought of while reading this post…
Regardless of if she is doing anything (which we don’t know), trust is a must.
…as long as you don’t mind getting crabs.
Getting played, bro. Get out now.
If anybody thinks she is just watching movies, the easter bunny is coming in 10 days, look out for your eggs. Learn from this and move on Matt. Just from a pragmatic standpoint, juggling that many dicks, the clap is going to get thrown in there sooner or later, if not already.
Kick her to the curb dude
That’s still a thing?
Crabs are forever.
Um… this whole conversation seems to be missing an important (if uncomfortable) step. Matt – One of two things is happening – either your girlfriend is an otherwise reasonable person who somehow managed not to learn about post-relationship boundaries, or she’s violating your trust. As most commenters have said, Occam’s razor seems to suggest the violation of trust, but if you think there’s any probability of the first option, you might owe it to yourself to do the thing you do before you break up with someone for unacceptable behavior. That is – tell her this makes you uncomfortable. If she’s not taking advantage of you, she might not realize that what she’s doing is wrong, and the only lesson she’d learn from being dumped is that you’re a jerk. If she IS taking advantage of you, telling her doesn’t put you at much risk – she’ll presumably keep breaking your trust, and while she might try to hide it more, you’ll figure it out pretty quickly. So if you think there’s any chance she doesn’t realize what she’s doing is strange (was she raised on a commune? Did she spend a lot of time in communal living situations in college? Those are the people I’ve known with this issue), let her know. If she’s pretty socially perceptive, then yeah – the odds of her breaking your trust are high enough that it might not be worth the benefit of the doubt.
She sounds immature, and she’s giving you reasons to be insecure. It is NOT going to be easy, but you should recognize she is making your life worse, not better, and get rid of her before it inevitably falls apart anyway.
When you’re with the right person, these trust feelings won’t even rear their head. i.e. She is not the right person.
Had a hard time reading this as it was very similar to a situation I encountered. If you’ve never been cheated on before it is very difficult to believe someone you care about would do that to you. My advice, do not make excuses or rationalize her behavior. Tell her once that you don’t like her hanging out with these guys alone. If she doesn’t immediately stop or (even worse) if she tries to turn it around like you’re being unreasonable and they are just friends (oh god why wont you let her have friends?!) then it’s time to end it before you get hurt any more.
I was going to comment the same thing about her possibly being oblivious to the fact that what she is doing is unacceptable, but it sounds like this chick has some “experience” with men. Still, you wouldn’t be doing anyone a favor by just kicking her to the curb without addressing the issue. I’ve found as I get older those tough conversations end up being a lot easier than you anticipate, as long as you’re dealing with someone who is at least slightly reasonable. That being said, I have definitely had my fair share of highly unreasonable women (all of them?).
This guy Matt has got to be young. I used to think the same way, but with age comes wisdom. Either that, or I’d be too tired to deal with that. Move on.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I am saying you’re looking for the optimistic needle-in-a-haystack, truly bucking the odds scenario. Best case is you are right and the girl is oblivious to her actions, and you end up being a teacher for her on what is socially acceptable for the next few years..in which case you have to buck more odds that she appreciates it instead of resenting you for trying to “change” her. That’s a lot of uphill battling in my book.
Why is no one saying, go to the bar sit next a cute girl, order 10 shots of tequila and then tell her that he’s being cheated on by his GF, that pickup line works great in movies.
Also one other POSSIBLE situation is that Matt is emotionally unavailable aka a robot(I was once as well) and she’s trying everything to get him to react so she can read him and understand how he feels. I got in arguments with GFs all the time because they couldn’t read me and hated it and would try and get reactions.
people seem keen on asserting that they must be still engaged in sexual relationships. but whether or not they are having any physical contact at all is irrelevant in this picture. the fact that she hangs out with multiple ex sex partners is an indication that she is not as emotionally invested in this relationship as much as Matt is, with or without sex. non-sexual hanging out for emotional reasons (could be the case here) can be seen by some as cheating on a higher scale than just sleeping with people outside of a romantic relationship.
You two need to get on the same page, and agree on what makes each other comfortable and stop doing what makes the other person uncomfortable, otherwise break it off.
If I hadn’t seen something similar with my own eyes, I wouldn’t have put it forth, because as you said – it feels like a pretty low-order probability.
Sloots gon sloot
Live to love another day. This is rough, but it does sound like she is not absolutely ready to commit herself to you. Just wishing you the best regardless of your decision.
Been there, it’s rough. Without trust any relationship is doomed. I ended mine swiftly and severely. A forewarning…she will come crawling back, it will test your fortitude, do not waver. And while it’s important to attempt to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I think in this instance she’s shown that she has very little regard for establishing trust or what the boundaries are for a solid adult relationship, even a new one.
Not sure what the ages are, my guess this would skew young-ish, which is even more reason to move on, plenty of amazing women out there that are well deserving of your time and energy.
Been there. Ignored all the signs until I literally caught her in bed with another dude.
Hoe fo sho
I was probably guilty of the same.
It’s unbelievable how many of us have been in similar situations. Communication, as you pointed out, is the first step to take for sure. I did this with one girl I was dating, pointing out exactly what the issues were that were making me feel this way, and citing an article that was called something like “Things That Can Make Your Man Insecure”. She literally was doing all 10! Her response to my concerns told me everything I needed to know. (but honestly, I still didn’t want to break up. it’s hard, especially when it’s you…you don’t have any perspective, so that’s why I feel especially bad for Matt)
The wisdoms of brahs. Accurately summed up in three words that probably aren’t even in the dictionary.
if it was reversed, she wouldn’t be cool with you hanging out with FWBs because she would assume you’re having sex with them. Why would she assume that? Because she is. She’s already sussed you out as soft and is playing you a mere 4 months in. She needs to go. Yesterday.
She’s probably not sleeping with them. She is most definitely, however, having sex with them.
Same here. Not worth the waste of time. She needs to go.
Matt needs to speak to a guy. Here ya go:
She isn’t the problem. The world is filled with skanks and they should be enjoyed for what they are. She wants to be used sexually- so use her. If you want to pursue a relationship with her then you are the problem. Fix your self esteem problems and you will find a girl worth pursuing.
I agree with Beth and many of the other commenters…. Regardless of what she is actually doing with these “friends,” the letter-writer’s GF is spending private time with people who, until very recently, she was sexually involved with. She is seriously pushing her luck and credibility if she thinks that sort of behavior wouldn’t raise red flags when she also purports to be in a sexually and romantically monogamous relationship. As Beth points out, there are ways to maintain friendships that wouldn’t raise suspicions of infidelity – going to lunch, getting coffee, hanging out in groups. Getting drinks and then going back to his place, alone, for a “movie?” Not so much.
Maybe she doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong, and heck, maybe she isn’t. But the fact that she is either oblivious to the way her behavior is impacting her current relationship, or is intentionally testing the boundaries of the relationship, indicates to me that she and the letter-writer are on totally different wavelengths in terms of their investment in and understanding of their relationship. The letter-writer either needs to have a serious relationship talk with his GF, or break things off now.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-13/brazilian-bikini-waxes-make-crab-lice-endangered-species-health.html
Becoming much less of a thing…
My advice:
“juggling that many dicks” …. now there is an image. You are also correct, but that was a fantastic phrase.
Get out, now. She is probably sleeping with them. But in the rare chance that she isn’t, and doesn’t realize that it is inappropriate to be hanging out with them, get out anyway because you don’t want to be with someone so clueless.
Let’s assume for a minute that she isn’t. Without question, this girl is making high risk choices. High risk choices increase the chance of undesirable consequences – it doesn’t matter who you are, this is a fact that applies to everyone. When someone consistently makes high risk choices, the chances of those consequences being realized increases dramatically. In this case, emotional cheating is probably the best case scenario, with physical AND emotional cheating being the worst case.
So what’s the take home? On a big picture level, it’s that high risk choices [in general] are not sustainable. With regard to this particular case, even if she isn’t cheating, the fact that she’s making high risk choices consistently and sees no problem with that is probably enough of a concern to leave her. Until she stops making high risk choices, it’s quite likely that this girl will destroy any romantic relationship she’s a part of.
Frankly, if she hasn’t figured out what she’s doing is highly inappropriate, there’s a very good chance she’ll accuse you of trying to be controlling and by ‘making her abandon her friends’. Be prepared for this and if she doesn’t concede the point and agree with you almost immediately, it’s not worth it – at that point it’s time to ditch her. If you don’t, you’re either going to break up later because she resents you for ‘making her abandon her friends’ or she’s just going to see them secretly. Either way, it’s not a road you want to go down.
I mean, when she comes crawling back you can make her a f-buddy, BUT make sure she’s one among many so that you don’t get attached (again).
Actually, you probably shouldn’t do that. You’ll probably either end up falling for her and getting hurt again or taking revenge on her. Neither is a good thing.
False. If she agreed to sever ties then she knows what she is doing is wrong.
Huh. All that I got from the original request was that she had agreed to stop sleeping with them. I must’ve missed where she agreed to sever ties with them. Clearly, if she agreed to sever ties with someone, and didn’t, then she’s broken trust.
Right, a lot of commenters are assuming she “agreed to sever ties.” But all the letter-writer says is that she promised “it would end” with them – “it” presumably referring to the sexual part of her “friends with benefits” relationships.
Ah you might be right there. I re-read it and it just says “She promised that it would end with them” which I interpreted as meaning she meant she would sever ties. But it could have just meant stop sleeping with them.
If that is the case, I’m much more on the fence about this.
Here’s a question for everybody kind of along the same lines as this but not quite as serious.
So I have been friends with this girl for about a year now. We bonded over being new in town and from the same town and we went to the same college but never knew eachother then. Anyway, we went on one date (no sex, just a little making out) then mutually decided to go back to being friends. I was perfectly okay with going back to being friends because honestly it just didn’t feel write on that one date. Anyway, she gets back together with her ex and out of the blue she texts me the other day and says he is too uncomfortable with it and we have to stop being friends. Am I crazy to think that this is a little ridiculous?
I think the reason that a lot of people believe she agreed to “sever ties” with her friends is because, in the third paragraph, Beth says she “pledged to (him) that she would sever ties with them.”
They’re becoming endangered due to habitat destruction. Deforestation is wrong, people!
She’s just not that into you…in the most platonic way possible.
But seriously (although I think that has a grain of truth) I don’t blame the guy that much. If you are really serious about staying friends with her, maybe see if she can arrange for you to get a drink with the guy. Explain to him what you explained here. If she still comes back and says you can’t be friends, you are obviously…whether or not it’s right…a wedge in their relationship and he didn’t buy what you said.
Regardless, her relationship with her boyfriend is more important to her than her friendship with you right now.
Finally, it may not have been a big deal to you, but do you know her side of it? I’ve made out with plenty of women where things were terrible, but they thought it was great. One pretty hot girl (had forgotten about this when i started this reply) still insists to this day we were legitimately dating, even though all we did was hang out in groups and kiss on maybe 4 occasions. Her husband doesn’t like me very much. Personally, I completely respect their relationship and if he’s upset about it, I’d rather not be an object of friction for them.
At the end of the day, honest and open communication is key. Sit down and tell her how it makes you feel… if you can’t come to a conclusion that makes you both comfortable, part ways amicably.
Trust is a must, and she is acting in an untrustworthy manner. Respect is a must, and she is acting in a disrespectful manner.
Matt!!! Don’t tolerate this. Even if she is not cheating, which is very unlikely, she has very poor boundaries. If she is in a relationship with you, why is she spending all this time, ALONE, with these former sex partners?? The sad part is she is using all of you to get her emotional needs met.
If you are committed to this relationship you need, however uncomfortable it makes you, to tell her how you feel about this and that it is not acceptable to you — but I doubt that will end well.