STORE WARS: J. Crew vs. J. Crew Factory
Starting March 19th and running through April 8th, Dappered.com is hosting a bracket based tournament with the purpose of eventually crowning the all around Affordable Men’s Style Retail Champ for 2013. For a full introduction see this post. The bracket on the right will be updated as the tournament progresses. Click on it for the full size. Make a case for your preferred competitor in the comments section, but don’t forget to vote at the bottom of each match up.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Huh. Well look what happened. Seems like they must be doing something right. Let’s try and answer two extremely understandable questions:
Q: “Why did J. Crew get two entries in the tournament?” A: Well, so did GAP inc. And a suit or blazer from J. Crew is a much different animal than a suit or blazer from J. Crew Factory. Sure, some of their goods are similar, but one could say the same about B.R. and GAP. Plus, J. Crew has their curation/”in good company” angle, and their sales usually apply to that stuff. That starts to push them from just pure brand into a different category.
Q: “This sucks, this is boring. What a lame final. Wouldn’t it have been better if one of the J. Crews took on another brand?” A: I disagree with it being a bad final. This is proof of how dominant the J. Crew parent brand is. You can’t say the same about B.R. and GAP, Lands’ End and L.E.C., Ralph Lauren and the now defunct Rugby, etc…
Feel free to leave additional thoughts on what this all J. Crew matchup means, if anything, in the comments…
Strengths: The leader. Out of all of the competitors, J. Crew has most likely had the most influence on how a guy’s clothes should fit (and therefore look) in the 21st century. And they’ve done a hell of a job. Esquire recently summed it up this way: “Everyone Wears J. Crew“. The construction of their suits and blazers is phenomenal, and if you catch a sale, a fused-suit budget can snag a piece of the canvassed & quality-chest-piece high life. Their “in good company” curation and collaborations with brands like Red Wing, Danner, Billykirk, and Barbour. Their slim fit section trims up their already well fitting stuff for those who are on the real slim side. Many of their own in-house shoes are made in Italy with stitched soles. Their outerwear, like the Mayfair Topcoat and University Coat.
Weaknesses: Prices. They’re up there, and a lot of their goods are just flat out of reach until they hit the sale section. Sometimes it feels like they take themselves a little too seriously (see how soaring and over the top the language can get in many of their item descriptions). The price of their Quartz watches. Dress shirts can get expensive. The heck is Wallace & Barnes anyway?
How They Got Here: Despite vocal support for the opposition, they dominated Thrift Stores in round 1, and then showed their strength against the heritage heavyweight Brooks Brothers in round 2. Nordstrom and their free shipping/returns were no match for the Muytjens Machine in the semis.
Strengths: Easily could have been a #1 seed. Some have understandably questioned why J. Crew and J. Crew Factory are separate competitors. The price ranges and level of quality (most of the time) are different enough, plus J. Crew Factory has such a strong presence that with a different name, they could easily stand alone as their own brand (they’re almost Banana Republic’s GAP). They’ve been online for awhile now, and that means access for everyone to their flagship Thompson suit separates (in wool-blend, all wool, and cotton), their tweed-like winter blazers, and merino wool v-necks. Factory is also smart enough to not make their jacket sleeve buttons functional, or even throw any accent stitching around them… makes for easy tailoring. Lots of sales, so if you’re patient and play the code game, you can get some great looking stuff for an extremely reasonable price. Seems like they actually responded to requests by those of you who wear a 36R or 36S to start making their suit jackets and blazers in that size. $4.95 flat rate shipping is one of the lower shipping rates out there.
Weaknesses: They can sometimes miss on quality. For example, plenty reported not being happy (at all) with their herringbone wool blend blazer from this past fall, yet the grey tweed-like blazer was up to snuff. Some accessories like belts, sunglasses, and ties have also been disappointing to some leaving feedback in the comments. Not everyone is head over heels for the Thompson (it’s fused, and can be a little stiff at first in some fabrics).
How They Got Here: Beat up on Amazon in Round 1, then cruised past Bonobos with surprising ease in Round 2. Took down Banana Republic, the defending champion, with a solid win in the semi finals.
Your votes determine this year’s champion. Cast your ballot below. Voting closes at midnight ET.
Store Wars: J. Crew vs. J. Crew Factory
- J. Crew (52%, 1,245 Votes)
- J. Crew Factory (48%, 1,139 Votes)
Total Voters: 2,384
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Joe, do you think Frank & Oak will make the bracket next year?
I see your point, but I still think this is a lame final. But I can only blame the voters for that.
It feels like J. Crew Factory is trying to pull off the Catalina Wine Mixer.
Factory does some things well, but J Crew tries to be everything to everyone, and damn near pulls it off. If there were one shop I could by clothes at, it would easily be J Crew. Suits, shoes, jackets, pants, sweaters, shorts, shirts, workwear, sleepwear, and on and on. Plus, they have sales on sales enough that it occasionally gets to Target level prices.
I abstain.
Until they carry a 48 jacket or 38×34 pants in store, I can’t vote for either.
I hope they give the Dappered readers a 40% coupon code to use for this. Are you listening, J. Crew? 40% off + free shipping, no exclusions or minimums! We deserve it.
In the future, I think it might be good for a rule to exist that if you can get to one contestant’s website from another, they’re not different stores. If you go to jcrew.com, factory is one of the menu items. I find it hard to call that a separate property.
J. Crew Factory should be a bullet point strength of J. Crew, not an entirely separate competitor.
I’ve never bought anything from either. Abstain!
Fair point. I’m just shy of six and a half feet tall. I’m not a big guy, but I’m not skinny either. It’s tough when I’m forced to order things online just to find out if they even fit or not.
It might be kind of fun to see the same concept applied to companies only focused on one particular aspect of style. Have Allen Edmons, Orient, etc. Have them battle it out to gauge the support each brand gets from readers.
Stacked sales are what pulls mainline J. Crew ahead, for me. I mean, I’m wearing, right now, a J. Crew t-shirt that I got for $15, a pair of J. Crew cords that I got for $17, and I’ll be putting on my Bayswater peacoat in a few minutes to head to work, which was $115 or so. Sure, Factory is cheaper on an everyday basis, but that’s not quite enough, given the occasional quality issues. (Though, I laughed a bit when I saw that my Factory cords had a high-quality YKK zipper and my mainline cords have a crappy, off-brand zipper.)
All of Joe’s points still apply in this case. You can get to GAP from BR’s website, to LEC from Land’s End’s website. I say, if you add items to separate shopping carts, they’re different stores.
Amen! Not carrying 38×34 stinks. Same with 48 jackets, those suits everyone goes on about are useless to me. At 6’5″ I’m only going to get so small. Just business lost for them I guess.
I think the big reason we ended up with this final is due to a lack of stores such as uniqlo in lieu of options such as ebay, goodwill and stores such as indochino and suit supply not heading off against each other from the start.
That being said, I still enjoyed the bracket, and at the end of the day, it was good fun. Doesn’t affect my buying habits.
http://imgur.com/tAbzc
I’m dropping my Thompson oxford cloth suit off at the tailor today. Gotta go with Factory.
Jcrew, simply because they don’t hate tall people, unlike JCrew Factory…
This would not have changed any outcomes – Uniqlo would not have eliminated either J.Crew or JCF in an earlier round.
Absolutely no contest, J. Crew. Almost everything that I bought a few (at least 2) years ago from Factory (when I was still buying things there) hasn’t lasted in terms of quality and/or style.
I look at my closet now and it contains the Stonefield Jacket, an italian wool Ludlow suit, and about 10 of those new dress shirts, one of which was mistaken for Gucci the other day.
Of all the mall brands, this is one of those stores that I try to frequent, especially more than Banana Republic and the like. The quality control, the fantastic (if not too overbearing) customer service from the employees, the comfortable stores, I could go on but there’s a reason why this company is doing so well these past few years.
Stop saying J. Crew vs J. Crew Factory are the same as Banana Republic vs. GAP. If anything it’s the same as Banana Republic vs. Banana Republic Factory and GAP vs GAP Outlet.
Gonna ask for suggestions for next year’s tournament in a post tomorrow. I’m still not sold on the “suit region” “department store region” idea, but maybe worth a shot in 2014.
As far as Uniqlo goes, after a few really disappointing purchases (blazers mostly) I personally haven’t given them another shot in months in terms of my own wardrobe. Might have to give them another try though. Especially with their linen jackets and since a lot of you guys still really like them. Dappered is, after all, about you guys.
Disagree. Neither of the GAP inc brands have any sort of web presence, and there’s a huge percentage who don’t live near a brick and mortar location for BR Factory.
They make suits/blazers for BR Factory? I haven’t been in one in years. Besides, lots of J. Crew Factory stuff seems to be on par with B.R. full line. Maybe not in quality, but in fit and looks (see suiting).
I have little direct experience with them myself, and it seems like every time they’d get posted in a Friday Handful, there’d be lots of “mneh” comments about them.
That said, I’m thinking about opening the tournament selection process just to pure voting next year. One post with a poll with a ton of stores. You guys vote to see who gets in.
I totally agree with this. Some folks seem to have a real mental roadblock with the fact that J.Crew Factory has “J.Crew” in its name. The relationship between J.Crew and JCF is essentially identical to the relationship between BR and GAP, but no one complains about both those stores getting their own slot.
I really don’t get all the criticisms about J.Crew getting two bites at the apple or whatever.
Both J.Crew and J.Crew Factory stand on their own feet as competitors. The fact that they both remain undefeated thus far is a testament to their respective strengths. Whether their relationship is more like BR and GAP or BR and BR Factory is irrelevant. If there were another “factory” store strong enough to hold its own in this competition, then it would deserve its own spot, too. But there is no such store.
J.Crew has put out an independent, “budget” subbrand with its own complete product line, online and B&M presence, and signature products. This mere “subbrand” is so dominant that it has emerged victorious over competitors like Bonobos and even the former champ, BR.
If that’s not evidence that J.Crew Factory “deserves” to be here, and that J.Crew “deserves” two bites at the apple, then I don’t know what is. The votes speak for themselves and, as it turns out, most Dappered readers WANT to see a J.Crew/JCF face-off.
All I can say is that J Crew is alright but the price point is too high for what you get. I tried the thompson full wool suit during the black friday sale and when it arrived was very dissapointed by the poor quality of the fabric (itchy as heck) and quality control (I mean come-on one lapel cut as a 2 button suit and the other as a high 3 button suit?) Although the price was rebated, that didn’t include the exorbitant cost it took to ship the return back from Canada. Never again to such poor quality from JCrew factory.
I have to go with JCF. Over the last 2 + yeas J Crew has priced themselves out of my range
without a real increase in quality. For example I remember when JC used to have Italian Merino wool V necks and now they are just merino wool V necks that cost the same $79 per.
Possibly not, but goodwill and ebay sure didnt help matters. Surprising in any case. I remember a fair bit of crowing from you about the lack of uniqlo early on. Lol
As I said, I’m not too distraught over the finals in any case. Doesn’t really affect anything. I’d prefer if JCF take the win though.
I used them as an example earlier, but personally I think their stuff is junk and don’t shop there. I wouldn’t sweat it too much Joe. Overall, I think this was fun and you did a hell of a job setting it up.
Crowing about the lack of Uniqlo? You are obviously remembering some other commenter. I’ve never purchased anything from Uniqlo and really don’t care about them one way or another.
I did comment about Uniqlo at some point, but it was something to the effect that I was not surprised Uniqlo didn’t make the Store Wars cut, due to their lack of B&M presence, their relatively new online presence, and their general lack of brand recognition at this point.
This tournament was a brilliant idea and I can’t wait for next year. I’m not the biggest fan of J.Crew, but with the bracket setup, only Banana Republic had a shot at taking out J. Crew. Personally, I’m still waiting for someone to explain the appeal of J. Crew (Besides suiting) over its competitors. Maybe I’m just old, but pre-wrinkled clothing, especially dress shirts, on store shelves is pretentious and a huge turnoff.
Not sure. I think it was Rob actually. Not sure why I attributed it with you. I personally don’t care for the store either.
That would be a great way to switch things up. Give three times the available bracket spots. Seeds are determined accordingly.
Using my ballot today for a write-in candidate.
J. Crew Factory gets my vote. For regular J. Crew prices, I’ll spend just a tad more and go Brooks Brothers. I feel like J. Crew Factory is a better value for the quality of clothes you get.
As for the whole J. Crew vs J. Crew Factory debate, maybe next year roll stores with Factory/Outlet brands in with their regular counterparts, so J. Crew and J. Crew Factory would be one entry, along with BR and BR Factory, Gap and Gap Outlet, etc. This would also allow for other brands that have factory outlets, like, BR, Gap, and Brooks Brothers but that aren’t currently represented in the bracket.
That wouldn’t give an unfair advantage to J. Crew, bc they’re already steamrolling everyone else anyway.
This x100. I have a J. Crew and a J. Crew factory within ten minutes of my house, and they never have suiting of any kind. They maybe have a blazer, one at most model of wool trousers, one or two models of chino, and a few dress shirts. The majority of clothing, however, is casual wear, like pre-washed t-shirts, polos, chinos, and jeans. Those are clothing items I don’t buy from J. Crew, either because I don’t like those styles or because better options are available for the same or less money.
Wow. Little bit of tension on this one, eh? I never knew what the differences were until recently. I thought JCF was just clearance merchandise from JC! Thanks for helping, Joe! I’m gonna go with JC because I absolutely love my Ludlow suit and University Coat. I do have a bunch of JCF dress shirts and ties, but purposefully purchase lower quality in those because I’m a physical therapist and am active all day long.
I think a bracket with different clothing items differing each year would be cool. Like how Colin Cowherd has done with cereals and superheroes. Like a blazer tourney, then oxfords, etc.
I definitely think J. Crew vs. J. Crew Factory is similar to BR vs. Gap, not BR vs. BR Factory. BR Factory is hardly well-known or accessible. J. Crew Factory has such a hefty online presence, it is no wonder that it is so popular in the voting. On top of that, it requires a separate shopping cart and the mainline stores are clearly not closely operated with the Factory stores.
This is my favorite Store Wars match-up, yet, since both brands are so worthy of the popularity they have. I especially enjoyed the Strengths written about J. Crew. It is a great brand, and its spin-off has been no shameful endeavor.
My vote goes for JC Factory. Don’t get me wrong, I love the main line but some of their stuff are still overpriced even when they’re %40 off.
Also if you happen to live in Canada, like I do, you’re better off forgetting about this brand completely and look elsewhere to satisfy your sartorial needs/cravings.
Oh man. Don’t give up on Uniqlo – you’d be doing yourself a disservice. Their blazers are kinda crap but they always have pretty cool t-shirts in the summer, and their shirts are great. $30 oxfords are well made as are most of their button up shirts. Materials and construction seemed to be better about five years ago but I still think they’re a great value. I think too, the online experience is not that great. I think if you went in one of the b&m stores, you’d have a better opinion of them. There’s a reason why New Yorkers live off the basics there.
This was entertaining, although, personally I would think Levi’s, Uniqlo, H&M and Club Monaco would be better and more interesting competitors than Ebay, Amazon, Goodwill, Suitsupply, Indochino and J. Crew Factory(I don’t care what anyone says, this is the SAME DAMN STORE AS J CREW!). Really Ebay, Amazon and Goodwill shouldn’t have even been in the running cause those outlets don’t even have a vision of menswear or fashion in general? You might as throw Loehmann’s in there…
I have a Jcrew Factory down vest and it looks no different from the boulder vest sold at JCrew, except for the down fill rating. I also have the JCrew Colburn sportcoat bought during a 30% sale which is a phenomenal tweed jacket. Even with great bargains at Factory, I will still go for JCrew for great outerwear and sweaters just because their pieces are top quality and their Factory store seems to have very limited styles available when compared to JCrew.
Yes, BR Factory does make suits and blazers. And I would say there is an equal percentage of factory items being on par with their main line store between Banana Republic and J. Crew. But seeing as how you have mentioned suits… GAP doesn’t even sell suits. So again, making this a Banana vs GAP comparison is apples to oranges. Online presence is a factor (I realize a big factor for a blog) but not everyone shops online, especially with shipping charges. And since you’re also mentioning B&M stores, there are more GAP/Banana Republic outlet stores than there are J. Crew Factory stores.
So I don’t see how you can truthfully disagree with the above statement without having “been in one in years” and actually being able to see/touch/feel the products. I’m not taking issue with the fact that JC and JCF are two separate stores. You can’t return JCF items to regular JC stores…that makes them two distinct stores in my book. And I’m not taking issue with the fact that these are the final competitors…it came down to a vote. What I am taking issue with is saying JC and JCF is just the same as Banana Republic/Gap.
J. Crew vs. J. Crew Factory is McIntosh Apples to Fuji Apples
Banana Republic vs Banana Republic Factory is McIntosh Apples to Fuji Apples
Banana Republic vs Gap is Apples to Oranges
Anxiously awaiting your reply
Uh.. you’re confusing the Hunt Club with just being a member of F&O.
The *voluntary* Hunt Club membership requires you to either choose/cancel your crate at the beginning of each month, or you will be charged $45 in credit to your F&O account. You get free shipping for meeting this requirement, as well as an instant 10% back in credit on every purchase. It’s very simple to set a reminder in your calendar to cancel or choose it, plus they email you about it. Otherwise, you pay a nominal shipping fee just like any other site.
They choose to attach stipulations to the free shipping they offer, because they are trying to foster an ongoing engagement with the site. What’s the issue here?
J. Crew sells suits. J. Crew Factory also sells suits.
Banana Republic sells suits. Banana Republic Factory also sells suits.
GAP does not sell suits.
I think that’s a phenomenal idea, actually (not that we don’t trust your all-knowing judgment)!
No tailoring needed on their shirts, and the Newport chinos I got are great as well.
To each their own, I suppose.
Yes, I was referring to the Hunt Club – I think “conveniently crediting” someone 45 dollars for nothing is bad business (maybe this is dated and they changed that phrasing by now… they should have, at least).
Its not crediting someone, it is charging someone for not taking action – which is kind of an a-hole move. Much like a bank would do to someone who missed a payment. The only difference is that the bank lent money up front. What did F&O do for me? Let me try on a shirt?
That said… I do like the fit of their clothes, and I am a 5-month member of the Hunt Club.
But, I have yet to purchase anything because I do not need one more monthly billing cycle to worry about.
The catalogs that they send me feature and play up their suiting, sport coats, and dress shirts just as much as their casual stuff. I get that what their stores carry is likely market-driven based on what sells well in the area, and it’s a “younger, hipper” brand whose core audience doesn’t have a pressing need for dress clothing, but it’s still annoying that I can’t try it on without ordering it online.
I wouldn’t say essentially identical. Yes, all of these stores stand on their own as distinct, separate stores. But in terms of the products being sold there is a MUCH bigger difference between Gap and Banana Republic than there is a difference between J. Crew and J. Crew Factory.
If you compare the inventory of JC and JCF (or really any regular vs factory store), you will see a lot of similarities. Banana Republic sells suits, shoes, neckties, French-cuff shirts, and cuff links. GAP does not sell those things (according to their website). But they also have things that Banana Republic doesn’t sell: swim suits, baseball hats, and Star Wars memorabilia.
Fit, quality, and access are all subjective and YMMV. But on a basic, fundamental level the products being sold between GAP and Banana Republic are much more varied than JC and JCF.
After a rocky first couple of rounds, this:
http://dappered.com/2013/03/storewars2013-where-style-and-brackets-collide/#comment-833743923
This sounds like a fantastic idea. Perhaps for the bubble rounds, we could do one post, four polls, 4 winners who seed each “conference.”
Whoa there Plato.
I’m thinking beyond the confines of outlets. I’m thinking more along the lines of price/quality/footprint. Big brother, little brother. BR Factory stores don’t have a big enough footprint for Store Wars. J. Crew Factory has done so well, they’re like J. Crew’s right hand man (or woman, depending on what you’re shopping for). They’ve surpassed being just an outlet. They’re their own brand, and I think that really makes them unique.
Banana Republic and GAP are Picard and Riker. BR factory is… I dunno, Warf? Data? In the mix, but, well, y’know.
J. Crew and J. Crew Factory are Kirk and Spock.
We’ve official entered this zone: http://dappered.com/2012/09/signs-you-talk-too-much-about-menswear/
I’m “anxiously awaiting” a beer. No need to reply. Let’s all move on. This doesn’t matter.
No 484 fit at Factory, that settles it for me…. Those pants literally fit like they were made for my body. Of course, that’s just me getting lucky, but still.
GAP isn’t the same as BR! HOW DARE YOU!?!?
Doesn’t matter in either case. The vote is what the vote is.
=D
I really thought JCF would of pushed ahead by now.
How incredibly anti-climatic… everyone at Dappered shops at J.Crew. No wonder they need help!!
Haha.
I don’t get the major appeal myself. Then again, I am a taller guy so…
Kind of a stupid reason. I wear a 34s and 30-28 and they don’t carry those in store but I order online.
I think they both offer great value, style, and sizing for mid tier suits at $500 or bellow. I think the only thing they have in common is the name J Crew but otherwise quality and price wise they are very different.
A Ludlow suit can easily run $700+ but with discount you can get them for around $500. The material and details are on par with Banana or any other department store brand. Simply Ludlow suits are slightly above average quality.
J Crew Factory Thompson suits full price are $436 but they are always on sale and sometimes have an additional 20%-30% off bringing their suits to $250 or bellow. Now the lower price comes with some compromises. Details like workable cuffs or monogram are absent. The lining is cheap and rough. The worsted wool suits are thin and the stitching isn’t always quality. However they do still retain the great J Crew fit and look found on the more expensive Ludlow suits.
Overall I have gone with 4 Thompson suits because I can’t rationalize paying twice as much for a Ludlow suit. I wear suits everyday so losing a suit out of my rotation because I blew out the pants does put a damper on my attire. But understandably there are some people who will simply no comprehend the lower quality Thompson and just pay the extra money for a better suit.
I disagree with Joe. I used to work for Banana Republic and BRF and maybe 10-15 years ago BRF had very good quality items because they were using the leftovers or imperfects from the BF stores but now BRF makes their own clothes and the quality has gone down drastically.
Banana Republic Factory does make blazers and suits and the quality is maybe slightly better than a Thompson suit but the fit is defiantly more of a modern fit rather than true slim. Also, the styles of suits BRF produces is really small. They offer usually a navy, grey, and some kind of stripe or plaid but you will never see more than 4-5 styles. In contrast JCF has maybe 8-10 styles. Both with discounts are usually priced the same but the real deciding factory for me is size. The lowest BRF goes is 38s for their jackets while JCF has 34s.