Full credit to reader Gabe for getting the details on when/why Bonobos changed their policy. Post inspired by a discussion had over on the facebook page.
Then: “Our return policy is simple: any item, any time, any reason. And we’ll pay for shipping on your returns and exchanges as many times at it takes to make sure you’re happy.” – Bonobos
Now: 365 days. Looks like earlier this year Bonobos put that doozy of a deadline on returns for their stuff.
Not 30 days. Not 45 days for store credit only. A full friggin’ year. That still seems like a ridiculous length of time. But part of the Bonobos magic is their commitment to their customers. Yet here’s a question:
Have some retailers, not just Bonobos, gone too far in trying to coddle their customers? Has this strategy of providing ridiculously high levels of customer service created a monster of a consumer, one who believes that the companies they do business with should bend over backwards for their dollars? The fact is, the customer is not always right. So have these overly generous return policies like those from Bonobos, Lands’ End Canvas, etc… helped create a sense of undeserved entitlement among consumers?
These shirts and pants are not made of Bismuth-209. To guarantee them forever seems ludicrous.
Yet there are many brands and companies that have a returns & exchanges window that seems awfully tight. Indochino’s 14 days within the item being shipped policy comes to mind. Not when it’s delivered. Shipped.
What is the perfect deadline? And has this “guaranteed till the end of the Universe because we don’t want you to rip us a new one on our facebook page” mentality gone to far? Leave it all below.
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Some retailers earn my businesses because of their return policy. I recently purchased over $500 worth of new pants from Bonobos because of items I returned. I returned them because I had lost a lot of weight and the fact that I can do something like this is a huge bonus for me. I would have had to either sell these clothes used (not very likely, or getting next to nothing) or give them away. This sort of return policy always saves me in the end. It is the same reason I like Lands End Canvas, Eddie Bauer, and LL Bean. Obviously I buy a lot from retailers who don’t have this stellar return policy (J.Crew, RL, Brooks Brothers, etc) but it always helps.
Indochino’s return policy is 14 days after being received: “To be considered eligible for return, all orders must be postmarked to Indochino within 14 days of a customer receiving their order.”
Did you wear the pants out of the house prior to returning them? Returning clothing that has been used is unethical. Return policies are intended for customers who wish to try an item on at home, determine if it fits, and then return it if they are unhappy. It is unreasonable to return an item after it has been subjected to wear and tear. i.e. the item should be returned in the same condition in which it was received.
This seems like an inappropriate use of returns. These companies shouldn’t have to carry the cost of yo-yo dieting or seasonal whims. If I wore something and the quality was as expected, then I shouldn’t return it. A changing waistline is out of these companies’ control.
Consumers are definitely spoiled and entitled these days – 30 days is plenty. If its online 30 days from delivery.
Definitely second the idea that Indochino’s window is way too tight for remakes and their customer service not very flexible. Used to be a huge fan (I have two of their suits and have recommended them to many family/friends who have bought), but that support is definitely tempered after my most recent experience with their very short, rigid timeframe for remakes.
My $0.02: Companies that sell bigger-ticket items, ones that are meant to last their customers for years, should tend towards a longer return policy to ensure their customers are satisfied.
I’d second this, only with a caveat for defective items. If the pants fall apart in 2-3 washings, I’d expect to be able to obtain a replacement or refund. However, I agree that the point is that you’re buying pants–not renting them.
I think what’s missing from the discussion is the possible frequency that someone wears something. What if I buy a pair of shoes and only have the “opportunity” to wear them once a week or less? Is 30 days enough time for me to see if they’re really going to hold up? Just a thought…
I agree that you probably shouldn’t return worn items just because you no longer like them or you want something else. However, it takes me a while to figure out if I like something (how it fits, how it looks, etc.). Sometimes that means wearing it out of the house for a day.
I’m not sure how that is unethical if Bonobos says you can return for any reason. If they say “returns unused,” fine. But understand that many people buy Bonobos products because of this return policy and the opportunity to really try something out before purchase. I know I do. I don’t think that is unethical when both sides are on the same page.
I’ve been swapping a lot at Bonobos lately and its mainly due to odd shrink after a wear or two or just things in the same size fitting totally different. I always email and ask the ninjas what they think and they always tell me to send it back if im not happy. I feel a litlte bad, but i also want to get the items correct so I wear them and don’t waste the money. I imagine once Bonobos tightens up their manufacturing processes, their return policy will shrink even more.
60 days is the sweet spot, and let me return it for any reason other than my ruining it. (wear, sizing, shrinkage, etc)
I voted 30 days because my idea number wasn’t a choice – 60 days. Sometimes I get busy and forget that it’s coming up on 30 days and then rush to return the item. With 60 days or even 45 days it gives me a bit of leeway. I think the 1 year is overkill but maybe they believe that gives them an edge over their competition and might lead to increased sales
Huh. Yet I see this right above that: ”
Items can be returned within 14 days of being shipped for a full refund.”
I think the best return policies are infinite, with a catch. Like Costco. You can return anything (except certain electronics) whenever, for any reason. But you have to be a member to shop in the first place. And Costco has been known to refund certain people’s membership fees and “invite” them to leave when it becomes evident that they are abusing the returns system.
I have a question on return ethics. I bought a couple of Bonobos suits less than a year ago. I was really unhappy that the dye in the arms of the silk seemed to be wearing off. Do you feel that I should return them?
That’s a pretty sleazy move bro. They aren’t a rental company. You’re not supposed to wear their stuff for a while and then return it when you’re done with it.
1 year warranty reserve for clothes probably hits their bottom line pretty hard, but easier to estimate than a lifetime warranty.
I agree. Sounds like Louis was sleeping during Ethics 101. Lost weight, Louis? Good for you. Now go out and buy some new clothes and don’t expect a business to take a hit for it. Clearly an abuse of return privileges.
I also have sent stuff back to Bonobos even after trying to address fit issues by getting things altered. They’ve been consistent that if I’m not happy they want it back and want me in clothes that I like. For that they earn loyalty.
If Bonobos took them back, I’d hardly call it “sleazy” — they know what they’re doing.
With shoes, I believe you got to have a liberal return policy, I have no idea how I will like a shoe until about 10 wears, especially with running shoes. I bought of Adidas at Zappos in June, and I ran a race in them, did a few training runs, and each time the shoe never got more comfortable, so I sent them back. I felt a twinge of apprehension doing it, but honestly the shoes weren’t right for me. I ended up buying another pair from them that I love and use now. With clothes, I think its ridiculous though. When something comes in, it either fits or it doesn’t.
Um, if the color is wearing off, then yeah, I’d send those back. That’s odd. Wait, do you mean on the exterior? Or the interior lining is fading? That’s odd either way, but especially bad if it’s on the outside and/or it’s staining your shirts on the inside.
Oh man. I’m a runner and if I wear a running shoe 10 times there’s no way I’m sending it back. At that point, it’s toast.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean it’s right. For instance, I could easily go to a restaurant like Applebees, order a steak, 3/4 of it, call the waiter over and tell them it’s not done properly. They would take it back and give me a brand new steak because that’s how they operate in order to keep customers happy. That is a sleazy move. It’s taking advantage of the system.
Saying “they know there is a possibility for abuse of the system” doesn’t justify being the one to abuse the system. Just because they know people may do it doesn’t make it right. By that logic, anyone who leaves their car unlocked in their driveway runs a higher risk of being robbed at night; that doesn’t make it ok to rob them just because they know it could happen.
The long and the short of it is this: if you don’t see a problem with what he did, your sense of ethics is way out of whack.
I have to say, I find Nordstrom’s lack of a return policy very attractive. I’ve never used it, but it’s very reassuring to have in case something falls apart a little down the road despite your giving it proper care. I’m not the type of guy to return something say 10 years down the road, but I’m not opposed to the idea of returning something a year after the purchase date if I feel like I got a bad deal. I’m just a poor med student who can’t really afford to have his wardrobe prematurely falling apart! I’m sure I wouldn’t care as much if my income weren’t -$60,000/year 😉
Wow…just wow.
Interesting thoughts regarding creating a “monster”. I definitely agree that the idea of “getting a deal” is so entrenched that people feel like they are getting ripped off if they don’t and are almost obnoxious about it. Companies like Nordstrom have trained the customer to believe that regardless of situation something can be returned, even after lengthy wear or just changing their mind. I think this does hurt other retailers but ultimately it does benefit the consumer. People will always take advantage though…
A friend of mine worked for REI. While they have an awesome return policy, they also keep track of abuse. Do it too often and you will find your membership revoked. Rightly so, IMO. Don’t ruin it for the rest of us.
I was conflicted about it, but the shoes were used indoors on a treadmill except for one outside 5k race. They were in near perfect shape still, albeit used. They were just so expensive at $115 I didn’t want to eat the cost. I don’t know.. maybe I was wrong to do it. There was just no way I could use them again, it was hurting my feet.
I couldn’t vote on this one. I think it is different for different products. Some of them, like boots, are often sold on the “it will last you for the rest of your life” platform, and for stuff like that, a lifetime guarantee is perfect. Generally I think 30 days they pay the shipping is good. 90 days seems like a weird compromise to me.
I hear you on that dilemma. Mrs. Styles began training for a marathon and the process of finding the right shoe–even with suggestions from Fleet Feet–is challenging. Some shoes felt great running on the indoor store track, but after 10 miles on pavement, they hurt her knees. I dunno if I’d feel right returning a pair after 10 runs; maybe after two or three. But at $100+ per pair, they’d better do what they’re supposed to do. It’s a lot to just chalk up and move on from.
It’s the silk on the lining. It’s ruined one dress shirt of mine. I loved them when I got them, but honestly I don’t think it should stain shirts on the inside.
My first pair of Bonobos pants, I got a size up (31×30 instead of 30×30) because of some reviews. They ended up being too big, so I asked the Ninjas what to do, if they would shrink, when they would restock with the right size, etc. He told me I could try shrinking them in the wash and if they didn’t fit, I could still exchange them once they restocked!
It sounds like we’re talking about this exclusively from the customer ethics/etiquette point of view, and not at all from the seller economics/marketing point of view. A lifetime return policy seems nonsensical if all you consider is the money a seller loses in refunds, but this is not the only, or even the most significant, effect of such a guarantee. When you know you can return an item at any time, for any reason, you have a lot more confidence in that item, so you’re more likely to buy it than an alternative which, while cheaper, doesn’t come with any buyer’s remorse insurance, especially if some stitching comes loose after a couple months. Furthermore (and ESPECIALLY after you’ve actually had a return go well), you develop confidence in the retailer, and are more likely to become a repeat customer and recommend them to your friends.
A couple of case-in-point examples:
I bought a pair of chukka boots from DSW.com and after a few months (but less than a dozen wears) the sole started coming detached. I checked DSW’s return policy, and I was SOL. Great for them, they effectively added $90 to their bottom line by not having to give me a refund (cue the reprimands for thinking I could get quality boots under $100). But I’m going to think twice before I buy another pair of shoes from them.
On the other hand, I’ve made use of Backcountry.com’s return policy several times, one of which easily falls into the “return policy abuse” category, and boy howdy is it an easy one to abuse. But you know what? Every piece of outdoor gear I buy (and some non-outdoor gear–they have a great selection of Nixon watches!) comes from Backcountry now, because I know they only sell gear that’s of high enough quality to live up to that kind of promise. And whenever anyone asks me where to buy gear (which is kind of a lot, since I used to backpack and canoe Alaska for a living), I don’t hesitate. The first thing I tell them about is Backcountry’s crazy return policy, but you know what you have to do first to even be able to abuse a return policy? Make your first purchase, which is one of the hardest things for a retailer (especially an unfamiliar startup like Bonobos a couple years ago) to convince you to do.
For every dollar lost in return policy abuse, these retailers usually more than make up for it with increased sales, which is why those policies exist in the first place. So as long as you’ve got the product and the service infrastructure to back it up, I say the longer the better.
This feature is a little confusing to me. Joe sounds more blown away by the 365-day policy than the previous Lifetime guarantee.
Wow. That sounds rather low to me. Your changing waistline doesn’t mean free replacement wardrobe from a company trying to stand by their products.
If the item is the problem, that’s when you use the return policy. If your waistline has changed the relationship with the clothes, you need to take responsibility and purchase new clothes.
Well that’s weird.
If you’re following the company’s guidelines, then you’re not doing anything wrong. Regardless of what anyone else thinks is ‘moral,’ companies have the right to set their own return policies. It seems absurd to point fingers at an individual who is acting within the boundaries of a company’s stated policy.
Brooks Brothers no longer has an unconditional guarantee. All hope is lost.