Ask A Woman: Red flag or reasonable expectation?
If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. She also might provide an answer without waiting to be asked. That happens from time to time too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com .
Hi Beth:
I have started dating a really nice woman who has a home (like I do) and a good income (like I do). During a recent conversation, the topic of “who should pay” came up. While she has paid for a few of our outings in the past, she told me that she thinks a man should pay for all the things, including her upcoming vacation with him.
I don’t mind paying for a lot of things, but paying for everything? Is this a red flag that I should really be worried about?
– Brian
Hi Brian,
So this woman voluntarily paid for some of your dates together but then recently told you that she thinks the man should pay for everything? That’s confusing—no wonder you’re writing to me. I guess one explanation is that she’s dated enough in recent years that she understands the standard for most people is sharing the price of a date or switching off paying for dates at least some of the time, so she’s willing to do it to stay in the game. But personally, she thinks men should pay for everything. Maybe early on she stuck to her guns and found that it was turning off guys.
This is a red flag in that it tells you what you should expect for the future with this woman. If she tells you “I believe men should pay for everything,” she’s not going to go on paying for half or even some of your dates. I think eventually, as you get more comfortable together, as you begin to become more permanent fixtures in each other’s lives, you’ll be reaching for the check every time. I could be totally wrong. This could be a scenario where she always acknowledges that her expectations are out of line with reality…but I doubt it. Why? Because we’re talking about money. Money, more than any other topic, causes conflict in relationships. It is the number one cause of discord and parting between romantic partners. It has been my experience, too, that money habits are some of the most difficult to break. So you need to think about the future assuming that this is one of her values, and use that to evaluate how to proceed.
Mo money, mo problems. Biggie gets it.
Although I personally think this woman’s perspective is ridiculous (and outdated, hellllooooo 1985), there is nothing inherently wrong in it. People come to the table with all sorts of ideas, values, and past experiences that inform how they approach their current relationship. What causes conflict most of the time is not that one person’s beliefs are wrong, it’s that they differ from the other person’s. At which point both parties have to decide—is this a deal breaker for me or is it something I’m willing to compromise on, or surrender to entirely? And neither of those options is wrong either, because if we’re good partners, there frequently will be things we give up for the other person. So it’s simply a matter of knowing yourself. What issues are you willing to bend on, and what issues are so important to you that you refuse to move?
If you’re still feeling unclear about what to make of this woman’s stance on paying for dates, you could open up the conversation again. Ask her to clarify her position; explain why you feel the way you do; see what shakes loose. Whatever you choose to do—continue with the relationship or break it off—I think it’s most important that you simply keep your eyes open.
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
RUUUUUUUN!!
Yep. Full sprint. Next.
Huge red flag. This was the largest problem with my last long-term relationship. She wanted to be taken out to fancy dinners all of the time, and we would argue viciously about who would pay (I ended up paying more often than not). These arguments were constant and extended to other expenses as well. It is just how Beth puts it: “Money, more than any other topic, causes conflict in relationships.” Be very, very careful.
Haha definitely a contrast from my fiancé, who begs me to let her pay for crap. To which, my Art of Manliness-reading self says, “hell no!”
THIS.
How is that manly? Do you expect a woman to stay at home, clean, cook, etc?
YES! What else are they good for?
(Please note the criticism here, haha).
I’m kiiiiinda with you. It doesn’t hurt my feeling of ‘manliness’ if my girlfriend of 4 years pays for things (heck, she has a much higher-paying job than I do, I’d hate to hold her back from things she wants us to do by insisting on scrounging for change to cover it). However, I do love to spoil her, so whenever I can possibly do it, I try to insist on paying.
But heck, honestly, same goes for my friends, only to a lesser extent. I like to be generous, and my budget doesn’t always allow it, so when I can cover that round of drinks, or foot the taxi fare, etc., I love to be that guy. Nothing about men vs. women, but more that I appreciate my friends (and my girlfriend) and want to give to them when I can.
Will she be cooking, cleaning, and at your beckon call whenever you need it? If not, the 1950’s called…
If she expects the relationship to be handled in an old fashion manner meaning the man ALWAYS pays, then she better be prepared to handle the “old fashion” expectations of a woman. It goes BOTH ways.
Run like you’re running for your life.
No. It doesn’t.
I don’t think this will work out. I dated a woman who had the more old-fashioned expectations of the man paying for most things. If we split the check, she’d get bitter. If we DIDN’T split the check, I’d get bitter. It was a constant problem. Neither of you should put yourselves through that. There are men out there who will meet her expectations, and women who will meet yours.
Forget Mo Money Mo Problems. She sounds more Geto Boys.
It was a bit tongue in cheek. I don’t honestly believe that this is the definition of manliness, that being said, I like to pay for her just as much as I enjoy doing things for her. If I can’t pay, I won’t. She pays for plenty, and I appreciate it when she does. But my inclination is to , not
What’s this girl look like? Unless her name rhymes with Harlot Schmohansen, I would run.
I believe he was being facetious; at least I hope so.
I just LOL’ed so hard. Bravo, sir..
Agree with you. It’s not a male or female thing. This quality is the mark of a good person no matter the gender.
Huh. I actually agree with @patrickpatrolindlino:disqus, if he’s being serious. Expectations like a man paying for EVERYTHING is so outdated and begs inequality. How can she insist on that kind of inequality (the kind that works in her favor), without picking up the rest of the proverbial tab (of inequality, not $$, as is the point haha). It’s like saying “I want you to treat me like a modern, independent woman, but all the while I plan to depend on you for your money in a wholly not-modern way.”
I’m definitely not saying that that kind of outdated inequality is in any way acceptable (and I don’t think Patrick is either), but rather that a woman expecting such unequal treatment is no better than a man doing the same thing in reverse. Any other way of looking it at it is only an endorsement for inequality, actually.
Quite possibly. It depends, in part, on what you’re looking for from the relationship. I’d have absolutely no problem with paying for a date where I knew I was expected to pay; I enjoyed the company; the date ended in such a way that it was, shall we say, worth my time; and I was not wanting or expecting any more than that out of the relationship. On the other hand, if I were seeking a deeper and more permanent relationship, then yeah. I’d be lacing up the sneakers.
+1,000,000
FLAWLESS VICTORY
He is.
Better decide before V Day!
The woman in question possesses an antiquated viewpoint, but that doesn’t give Brian the right to treat her with a lack of respect.
Another person’s negative behavior is never an acceptable excuse to for you to behave poorly.
I know a Harlot Schmohansen in Minnesota. Nice girl, annoying accent though.
I think it goes beyond antiquated to exploitative. Life is a two way street, and relationships in particular. You give and you get. I don’t think anyone is arguing that he should treat her poorly, or with a lack of respect, I think the point is that someone who acts that way shouldn’t expect to be treated any differently. I might be putting words in people’s mouths, but that’s my read.
He (or she) who gives respect, gets it. Honestly, haha I just would dump her ass (like I said, gotta give respect to get it).
It all comes down to your own opinion. Some men like the idea of always paying, I am not one of them. If you feel uncomfortable with her wanting you to always pay, I would say pass because it sounds like your view is opposite to hers.
My gf and I have set up a system when we go out and do things. It is an I pay, you pay next time sort of thing. It works really well for us
It’s one thing if you WANT to pay for everything. I tend to be that way. It’s entirely another that she EXPECTS you to pay for everything. One comes (presumably) from a place of generosity, the other comes from a place of entitlement. As others have said, big red flag.
It’s one thing if he likes the idea of always paying, its quite another if she expect that he pay for things. It’s a question of intent/motives- one is (presumably) generous, the other selfish and outdated.
I’m not normally a proponent of this type of thing, but in this case I would hit it, and then dump her.
name “rhymes with” not “name is” lol
We need to be very careful with our cultural relativism. This is behavior we can’t continue to let slide if we want strong and truly independent women. Her view point is preposterous in the 21st century and as such – deserves little to no respect. If she expects a man to pay for everything, simply because she’s a woman and thats how it should be… She has already disrespectfed any potential boyfriend by objectifying him. That’s not to say she is to be out right disrespected, but she certainly doesn’t have a view point worth respecting.
Never, EVER be that guy.
I concur.
If this guy loses his job or gets sick and can no longer pay she will leave. Why bother wasting any time with a woman like that?
My policy is to pay for the first round whenever possible. Made a lot of friends that way…
If you don’t agree, then it’s a red flag.
If you believe what she believes, then it’s nothing.
Why not? Derek Jeter has been doing it for 20 years and he’s a national hero.
Right, but that’s not what the issue is though. We all agree that she sounds self-entitled and outdated with her expectations. The issue is whether he is okay with dating someone like that. If that is something he can live with, who are we to tell him any different.
Casual sex is different than “hit it and quit it”.
Fully in agreement. Every woman I’ve dated has made less than half of my income… coupled with just being gentlemanly, I almost always pick up the bill. With that said, I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t at least want to pay on occasion. It’s a partnership.
The scare quotes around “old fashioned” had me assuming that this was a rape joke. Which isn’t cool, no matter the monetary disagreement.
Personally I’d run like hell from that broad.
Of course she wants him to pay for everything. Women are wired to use men for money, just as men are wired to use women for sex.
That is all there is and all you need to know.
Forget about crap like “inner beauty” and “true love”. That’s fairly tale nonsense.
Unless this woman is a perfect 10, amazing in bed, rarely disagrees with you, doesn’t nag, and respects you above all else, then leave her behind and start dating one of the good women out there who understands what it means to be in a respectful, adult relationship.
I can understand the man paying for the first few dates while getting to know one another. It is gentlemanly and classy, and the right thing to do. But once you are in a committed relationship, and it is determined that you both make comparable salaries, I think it is very appropriate that you both pay for things. The split, whether 50:50 or 60:40 or whatever, is obviously up to the couple to decide. But since you both have careers, and earn a salary, it is not wrong for you to expect to split things in the year 2014. It is very wrong for her to expect you to pay for everything, especially since she isn’t a poor student who doesn’t have available cash to spend on you.
Golddigger – GTFO.
Watch out. This is the kind that, if you somehow wound up in jail, would not bail you out. They are the ones who never plan a date, because that would mean they would have to pay for some or all of it. This type rarely cooks you a meal at home, they always want to eat at the hip, fancy places. If they do “reciprocate” it’s usually buying an inexpensive breakfast, paying a parking fee or something that’s just a few bucks. They balk at having dinner at a cheap diner, a coffee shop or a take-out. They won’t even do free things for you like giving you a back-rub, running an errand or a simple picnic. If they are drinkers, watch out. They will always want to go to places that serve alcohol. And if you ever go on vacation with one of these women, even if they say they will “help pay” you will find yourself at the short end of the stick.
I dont understand women who expect you to pay for everything. Yes men should treat their ladies often and pick up the tab, but its funny how some women will complain about their men never having money when since the beginning of the relationship they essential started paying double for everything by always picking up the bill, and she has been saving money the whole time by never having to pay for anything…..