Ask A Woman: Dress to impress…the ladies or the men?
If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. She also might provide an answer without waiting to be asked. That happens from time to time too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com .
Maybe you’ve heard the expression that men dress for women, and women dress for…other women. While I don’t think that statement is true all or even most of the time (for men or for women), I understand why we might be prone to think that. There are a lot of things women wear that I’ve heard countless men say they dislike, and yet women wear them anyway. When women are indeed dressing for other women, the reasons tend to be complicated. First of all, women are socialized to compete with each other for attention and positive reinforcement in a way that men are not. (Yes, men are socialized to compete with each other in other ways that are detrimental, but that’s not really in the scope of this post.) Women are taught that it’s important to be pretty, to be good, to be virtuous, to be sexy (mixed message alert!), to be thin. We’re also taught that our biggest barrier to being perceived as any of these things is comparison to other women. If our friend is sexier, thinner, prettier, our prospects for attention and resources are lessened.
So at it’s worst, when women dress for other women, we may be trying to one-up each other. What up, Emily, Ima cinch my waist so tight with this belt and wear this fall’s hottest new boots so you know I’m hotter and have better taste than you–eat it. I mean, you know, in a manner of speaking. This sort of thinking is most prevalent around young women–teens, early twenties, maybe mid-twenties–but hopefully it peters out soon into adulthood because it’s nonsense, and a distracting barrier to fulfilling friendships. Often our motivations are less nefarious, we just really care about being perceived by other women as well-dressed and attractive. So we dress carefully when we know we’ll see a friend whose style we admire, in the hopes of garnering positive reinforcement from her.
There’s an actual blog called The Man Repeller, based on the clothing and styles women love to wear, and men love to hate. Interesting concept, no?
I do think that women dress for men, too. This is probably more true for women looking for a mate, or at the beginning of a relationship. It just makes sense to dress in ways that potential (or new) boyfriends will find appealing. Later on the ladies are more prone to wear the leopard print blouse you find tacky, or to lounge around the house in those holey sweatpants with the tight elastic bands at the bottom that you simply detest (not that I’m speaking from personal experience, I lounge only in the finest silks and cashmere in only the most flattering cuts). For those who’ve been coupled up for longer periods of time, special occasions like anniversaries and big nights out are likely to find your lady wearing a dress she knows you love her in, or wearing her hair down just for you even though she usually puts it up.
Besides the two options of women dressing for other women or women dressing for men, there’s a third option. Women dressing for themselves. Hey-ooooo! I have to say that at this point in my life, this third option is the reason I wear what I wear most of the time. I wear clothing that I think is flattering on my body shape. I wear clothing that complements the mood I’m in. I wear clothing that I find beautiful and fun and elegant, hoping that some of those qualities will rub off on me while I wear those pieces. Sometimes I get compliments from men and/or women on what I wear, and it’s great, very flattering, but I still find it more important to listen to my own internal style navigation. I’m certainly not alone in dressing for myself, and I think most people–men and women–eventually get to that point. I highly recommend it. Wearing four-inch heels to impress your friends or a scandalously short skirt to attract men gets old in a hurry.
-Beth
Got a question for Beth? Send it to: askawoman@dappered.com
“I wear clothing that I think is flattering on my body shape. I wear clothing that complements the mood I’m in. I wear clothing that I find beautiful and fun and elegant, hoping that some of those qualities will rub off on me while I wear those pieces. ”
THIS.
Let’s discuss Man Repeller and its male equivalent, streetwear.
Both styles are what I’ve termed ‘intentional dissonance’. They both tend to feature fits that generally disguise and distort the human physique. They also employ incongruent color combinations. Both also feature an obsession with high-cost brands that produce these dissonant pieces. Often the obsessions will differentiate between desirable and undesirable brands despite practically identical quality and aesthetics without a definable reason.
I don’t know why this is, but I’ve met a few girls who are obsessed with this styling. The ones I’ve met share common characteristics – they are typically vain, catty and boastful. They often make a display of their “man repelling”, even extending it beyond their apparel. Ironically, most of them seem to desire and seek male attention more than their, uh, normal(?) counterparts. It’s almost like a skinny, gorgeous girl yelling about how fat she is in the hopes that everyone will tell her how thin and beautiful she is. The combination is quite confusing and off-putting.
I generally agree in that I wear what I like on me rather than what I think other people like. However, it’s difficult for me to say that I’m really dressing only for me because what I wear depends very much on the situation. Suppose that you had to work on a Saturday, and you were the only one working. You expect to drive in alone, be in your office/workspace all day alone, and then drive home alone. Would you still wear the same outfit you’d wear on a normal workday? If not, then in what sense are you really dressing for yourself?
I think dressing for one’s self can be admirable to a point. Without other people around, I think most people would not naturally care much about their aesthetics – instead, they’d opt for maximum comfort. I think most would agree that an undershirt and pair of gym shorts or a sweatshirt and sweatpants, are just about the peak of comfort. If that’s true, then dressing for yourself would mean wearing that stuff 90% of the time, if not more, yes?
Society (aka people) care how others look. Looking good helps people get into and maintain relationships, succeed professionally, get friends, etc etc etc to eternity. We know this and it’s conditioned us to want to look good. What we’ve been exposed to and what we’ve seen accepted as attractive will define differently for all of us what we consider to make us look attractive. You’re dressing for yourself? Not everyone dresses with the intent to look good – there are plenty of other goals, but the bottom line is this: unless you are considering nothing but how comfortable or how functional your clothes are, you are dressing for yourself as defined by the way you’ve been influenced by society and people, so you’re actually dressing for them.
I suppose that’s a valid point, but for most of us we have some sort of dress code to abide by. There’s a subtle distinction between wearing something because you have to, and wearing something because you want to.
Day to day, I wear a button-up shirt, tie, slacks, dress shoes, etc. but that’s required per my office’s dress code. The *style* that I choose to meet those requirements is all mine though. Trim gingham shirt, silk knit tie, trim Bonobos slacks, polished brogue captoes…in a way, I am still dressing for myself. I personally picked all of those things out this morning because I like them, not because someone in some magazine or style blog told me to.
Not so sure about that. I love the feel of certain materials and I wear them often just because I do. They are frequently not nearly as comfortable as my worn in jeans but I love to wear them despite that.
Admittedly I adjust what I am wearing for the situations with others I will be in (and sometimes to give me confidence) . But I would say most of us where what we do (at least on this site) because it gives us something.
There’s more than one definition for the concept of comfort though. In a pure physical sense, yes…sweatpants and an undershirt are pretty darn comfortable. But I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a different sense of the word wearing that out of the house. When I wake up on a Saturday morning and need to run to the store around the corner to grab some breakfast items, I know for sure that no one I encounter on the way to, or in the store, wouldn’t bat an eyelash if I wore flip flops, sweats, and a tee. But I would not feel comfortable leaving the house like that. It takes the same exact amount of effort to throw on a pair of chino shorts, canvas sneakers, and an ocbd. I feel more comfortable dressed like that, even if no one sees me.
I’ve browsed the Man Repeller blog a number of times; it’s fascinating
Right, but why do you feel more comfortable dressed like that. Chances are it’s because you have a developed sense of style that you now feel comfortable with when you’re out in public. Any where did that sense of style come from? What developed it? Back my my above write-up.
Women dress for me. Men also dress for me. You all dress for ME.
The example of sweats was just being used to illustrate my point – there are of course other materials that feel nice, but surely they would not be molded into the various forms we see today without reason (see my above musings).
Where that sense of comfort comes from doesn’t really matter though with regards to your first post I think. You end it by saying unless you’re only wearing what achieves maximum comfort and functionality, i.e. sweatpants and a tee, you’re dressing for more than yourself. It may be true on a large scale when it comes to men who typically don’t put much thought into how they dress themselves, but for me (and I suspect many Dappered readers, that’s not the case.
I think what he or she is driving at is that in contrast to physical comfort and utility, one’s sense of what ‘acceptably dressed to leave the house’ might be comes from external sources (socialization, environment, and so on) so it’s not really just yourself.
I’m not sure if it’s a useful distinction to make right this minute however.
Where the sense of comfort comes from makes all the difference. If you were born into a world where the outfit you described was the same, except it was treated to look metallic and shiny, and it was regarded the exact same way the outfit you described is regarded by our society, you’d be sitting there telling me the exact same thing about that outfit. You’d be telling me that because of your conditioning based on what you’d been exposed to. Again, we end up back at my original writeup.
Correct. I’m not sure I’d say its a “useful distinction” per-say… What I’m driving at is that the concept of “dressing for one’s self” is most often presented as “not caring what anyone else thinks about what you’re wearing”, which is, by definition, a load of crap. Further, if you’re on one of these sites, you can pretty much bet that you are dressing for other people more than most people, but a lot of people rationalize that away. “I’m dressing this way because I like it, I don’t care if anyone else likes it!” I believe the first part, but not the second part. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t care what you looked like or how people perceive you, at least on some level. This is normal. This is good. It’s ok to want to like the way you look and have other people like the way you look.
Correct. Hold on, posting a pic of my thong for your approval.
A magazine or style blog didn’t tell you to dress like that, but they probably helped you get there. Ridiculous hypothetical to prove my point: if an alien ship came down, abducted you, wiped your memory and brought you to their civilization where the popular looks were waaaay different, but outfit you described still existed, you wouldn’t end up in that same outfit.
Aliens? Are you sure you’re not from Styleforum?.. lol
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe it’s entirely possible for someone to dress themselves without giving other people’s opinions a second thought. Sure, there are some people who are incapable of dressing themselves without worrying about what others might think, but it would be a logical fallacy on the part of someone holding that opinion to assume everyone else must think the same way they do.
You also wouldn’t be “you” if that happened. You’d effectively be someone else. You are only you in the midst of your context.
I also don’t thin prefacing what you’re saying with the phrase ‘ridiculous hypothetical’ is the best way to try and make a point…
http://t.qkme.me/3piiwz.jpg
“I do think that women dress for men,too. This is probably more true for women looking for a mate, or at the beginning of a relationship. It just makes sense to dress in ways that potential (or new) boyfriends will find appealing.”
I’ve gathered that Beth is usually into guys, as are most of the Dappered contributors (at least seemingly – and statistically, probably), but I need to offer the constructive criticism that we shouldn’t assume that all women are looking for guys, or that all of us dapper gents are looking for ladies. Both because those of us who aren’t straight appreciate the recognition, and because sometimes men need to be reminded that we aren’t the sexual be-all and end-all for women.
But I LOVE the discussion – thanks!
You’re not wrong – that silly example obviously wasn’t well thought out. I’ll leave it alone though – I’ve sufficiently reinforced my argument several times in a separate string of comments attached to this article.
Men definitely dress for others, but most don’t contemplate it all the time, this thread excluded. When we see another guy dressed nicely we don’t feel jealous, but we do make judgements about them based on their clothes and style. For most guys this happens at an almost subconscious level and is linked to their values and environment. Some men take as an element of pride and self worth that they don’t dress up and remain in their casual clothes.
Most women, dress in an almost competitive fashion. Even when they dress down, they obsess about who might see them outside of the proper environment for that garb. When they see another women dressed in a manner that is either above or below their threshold for acceptance it becomes a point that must be vocalized either immediately or hours/days later (if nobody was present to discuss this with). The threshold of acceptance is far narrower than it is for guys, as is the acceptable environments for clothing type. For men, women seem to have wider range of acceptance than they broke for other women. By no means do I mean to infer that all women are like this, but is definitely within the 80th percentile. Even women who seem to have no fashion sense (obviously a judgement in itself) are obsessive about how other women dress and strangely a woman who dresses too well can almost make them a piraya amongst certain women. Conversely, a woman who does not dress up to the excepted level can become either a subject of pity or disdain. I am sure some social/behavioral scientist has written about his, but the paper was quickly burned. I don’t know that this is an issue of one sex’s thought process differing from the others or merely social and parental teachings… I am inclined to believe the later as women whom I know that have been removed from normal social upbringing seem to be removed from these same judgments.
Gay people on a style forum???
Touche!
This is one of the best series of comments, EVER. Much better than the lively debates I had in undergrad and grad about Schrodinger’s cat. I’m sending my old philosophy profs this thread so they can use it in their classes going forward. 🙂
If Beth could answer me this it would be great but any input is welcome
Women have an incredibly hard time creating a real personal style. I find that it’s mostlly because they follow trends and fashions more than they explore their own tastes. On the other hand, personal style builders often ask “what is the message you want to send with your clothes?”
And at least for me, I find itincredibly hard due to all the mixed messages out there: Women are taught that it’s important to be pretty, to be good, to be virtuous, to be sexy (mixed message alert!), to be thin.
Truth is, even though you try hard to go away from the pack, develop personal taste and style and dress according to it, those messages are still there. you still dress to compliment you shape (to be attractive/sexy/thin) but cover up enough to still be “virtuous” and so on. It’s a bit of a game women can’t win
Maybe the definition of comfort is the issue. Would I wear my awesome bespoke suit with no one around, probably. I look great in it and it makes me feel good so I enjoy wearing it for the positive vibes it gives me.
Sweats do the opposite, they make me feel schlumpy (my kids love to spend a day in their pajamas and I hate it).
I dress up for work as it tends to make me bring my A game (same reason why I prefer the office to home – I am in the zone there)
So… after you “get” the guy you’ve always wanted, you “stop” dressing in ways that he likes? Hmmm… considering the fact that by then he’ll have seen every inch of you a thousand times, you may want to do your best to keep it fresh. I’m not saying not to dress for yourself. But don’t talk about dressing for the person you’re in love with like it’s a sin. If anything, dress for yourself at the younger age and dress only to impress the one you end up with.