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Why is skin in, with women, in winter?

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Ask A Woman: What’s with the trampy-ness ladies?

If you’ve got a question that needs the female treatment, chances are you’re not the only one who wants to ask it. Beth is our source for the answers. From opinions on men’s style to decoding the sometimes mysterious ways of women, she’ll take on a different question every Thursday. And don’t worry, your identity will be protected too. Click here to get to know Beth, then get in touch with her by sending your question to: askawoman@dappered.com

Beth is off this week, so here’s a temperature appropriate column from the archives.
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Hello Beth,

Like others on dappered, I enjoy a night out, hanging with some friends and getting some drinks.  Well, there’s been a pestering trend in women’s style that I can’t seem to get, and it’s women dressing trampy.  I’ve probably become more aware of this due to the changing seasons, it’s 30 degrees out, and women are wearing things I’d expect to see in 90 degree weather.  You wouldn’t expect to see men dressed in shorts and flip-flops in this weather (although I’m sure a few of us have), so where did the common sense of these people to dress appropriately go?

This makes me look back at the article on Women’s Style Wins. These are all great things I would like to keep seeing, but the trends have missed this, it’s going in the complete opposite direction.  Of course I could just distance my association with these people and places or even ignore it, but from a women’s perspective, I’d like to know why some women dress this way?

– Alex

 

Hi Alex,

This is a chicken or the egg type of question.  Do women wear what is made available by clothing designers or do clothing designers make available what women are wearing?  I have no earthly idea.  How’s that for decisiveness?

Okay, actually I do have sort of a theory.  Here it goes.  Jean Paul Gaultier is having a bad day.  Madonna is no longer interested in wearing his cone bras, and he can’t get any of those damn kids from the Twilight movies to sport one.  The issue distracts him from his preparations for fashion week; amidst his torpedo-shaped support-wear stress he runs out of time to create a pair of pants for a particular look that is slated to come down the runway.  Thus, one of his models goes out on the catwalk wearing a lace corset, no pants, and a cape.

Lady Gaga is in the crowd (she’s in town getting fitted for a dress made of jello and seaweed, naturally).  She sees the model with the lace corset and missing pants and thinks it’s a stroke of genius.  So she recreates her own version of the outfit, swapping out the lace corset for–what else?–a pleather leotard, but keeping the cape and the nonexistent pants, and wears it to tea at the Plaza Hotel.  She’s making a statement about her artistry, or her celebrity, or she’s simply trying to grab headlines and magazine covers, and who can blame her, right?  It takes more and more to shock and titillate, and with fame so fleeting, she has to do what she can to stay on top.

All roads lead to Hendricks.

Gaga is photographed by every tabloid rag.  Eventually the look filters down, to mainstream designers, to personal shoppers, to stylists, to people putting together lookbooks and catalogs…and more accessible versions begin appearing on the street, and yes, Alex, in YOUR neighborhood tavern.  Then you turn to your friend and say, my God, isn’t that woman freezing?  And I arrive late to a birthday celebration at a bar, and an acquaintance is already sitting down at the table, and I admire the beautiful teal hue of her sweater…until she stands up and I realize the sweater is the only thing she is wearing, and I’m literally face to crotch with her horrifying lack of pants, though no worries because she’s wearing particularly sturdy nylons.

Wait…where was I going with this?  Okay, granted I got a little off track here, but what I’m saying is that women are heavily influenced by what they see in popular culture (same goes for men, I’m not claiming sole female ownership over this one).  There is an enormous amount of pressure to be beautiful, to be desirable, to be a perfect specimen.  Not new ideas here, I know, but I have to go over them to get where we’re going.  For some women, they see Katy Perry wearing a bustier that barely covers her nipples, and the message that they receive is: this is beauty.  This is taste.  This is the aesthetic I need to cultivate in order to be considered worthy by others.  Plus, come on, a Katy Perry-inspired outfit is going to garner more attention than a Catherine Middleton-inspired outfit will.  The swiveling head of every man you walk by is some serious positive reinforcement.

This is not all women, though.  The women whose thongs you’re seeing may be the women for whom style is merely a way to showcase their bodies.  This is not intrinsically right or wrong, it’s just different from women who use style as a creative outlet, or because they simply love beautiful things.

I just re-read my response.  Where in the hell did I take you people?  Drinks are on me if you can follow the bouncing ball.

-Beth

Got a question for Beth? Send them to: askawoman@dappered.com

Comments

  1. I’m of two minds here:

    1) I think it’s a bit unfortunate if some women are led to believe that dressing in revealing clothing is how they need to get positive reinforcement, and I think Beth is right with her wacky description of the outward ripples of pop culture.2) I wonder what makes Alex think it is respectful for him to label these women “trampy” for dressing in ways that show their body. They can dress however the hell they want.

  2. No, no, when it’s 30 degrees out and she’s got less material covering her body than Donald Duck, “trampy” is the correct adjective. 

  3. So when men and other women turn their heads and say “What a tramp!, that’s positive reinforcement? The big problem is most women, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry especially, don’t know the difference between sexy and slutty.

  4. I see just as many guys going around, and in winter, wearing shorts and flip flops, but I live in a college town, so that will affect what I see.

  5. Respect is earned.  People judge you on how you present yourself, since it’s a conscious choice.    I think it’s a bit unfortunate there are those who absolve people of responsibility for their clothing selection. 

    You can dress however the hell you want, but you have to accept the way it influences people’s impression of you.

  6. Lady Gaga and the such think positive reinforcement is just getting people to talk about them.
    Good or bad, all they want is people talking. They could give a rats ass if the words “slut” or “tramp” come out of someones mouth, as long as its about them. Thats the positive reinforcement they thrive off of.

    Sad isnt it….lol
    Such losers in this world these days.

  7. Exactly. Girls, if you dress like a tramp, don’t act so shocked when other people think you’re a tramp.

  9. I’m sure some guys really go for the girl wearing virtually nothing—and it’s undoubtedly a way to get attention at bars, but I only give such girls a second glance the way I give a second glance to a bright yellow sign that says “Dead End Road.”

    Ultimately, I think the mantra about “dressing for the part” is pretty much universally applicable.  If you really wanna go home with Joe 6-pack, then Katy Perry is probably they way to go. If you’re looking for a long term relationship with a centered guy, Kate Middleton isn’t too far off (sans huge hats of course).

  10. I agree, although I really don’t mind on some ladies.  This goes for yoga pants, too.

    That being said, if they’re allowed to wear that out, my pajama pants (oxford from BB, so comfortable) and old school adidas warmup pants are totally legit to wear out, right?

  11. If guys are trying to pick-up “long term kate middleton” at the bar in the first place, good luck. IMO, you are at the bar for entertainment. Sit back with a decent drink and enjoy the show. Who honestly is complaining if ladies want to show some skin? The exception to this would be the few ladies who insist they are a size 4, when really they are a size 14… Cover up please.

  14. I’m really over the use of terms like “tramp” and “slut” used to describe women based on how they dress. Come on, dudes. No one makes moral judgments about you based on what you’re wearing.

  15. I remember observing this phenomenon in college and I interpreted it thusly:

    These women don’t have overcoats and if they did, there are no longer coat checks in the bars and clubs they frequent that could take them.

    It’s 30º outside, but 80º inside the club they’re going to.  They’re going to spend all night in that club or another just like it and only have to make it from the door to a taxi before they freeze to  death.

    They don’t want to be bothered carrying around a coat, so they just don’t bring one.

    As for the trampiness, well… that’s a whole different thing.

  18. Nah. I don’t always dress practically either. Putting moral value on the way that a woman dresses, rather than simply reflecting on its practicality or taste (in the simple way that you might think a college bro in cargo shorts is missing the boat) is a harmful double standard. It devalues women by appraising them based on their sexuality. 

  19. I agree with you, Charlie. But if I wear shorts and a t-shirt no one accuses me of being  “tramp” or a “slut.” That’s where my problem is. Look at JDT and Josh’s comments. Is this how you want people to think of women? Objects whose value is appraisable by the clothing they use to cover or not cover their body? I’m not saying that you have to think of every woman in revealing clothing as a potential coworker or friend—after all, we befriend people with similar taste—but making moral and sexual judgements based off of that clothing backs up a way of seeing women that I just can’t back.

  20. Johnnie Blue on the rocks, huh? How people drink their liquor is their business of course but it’s a shame to dilute good whisky IMO. In any event, Lagavulin > Johnnie Blue for a lot less money.

    Just sayin’

  21. I understand where you’re coming from, but there’s a difference between a man’s t-shirt/shorts outfit and a skirt or dress where ass cheeks are literally visible.  If a girl’s wearing a skirt that hits mid-thigh (or even higher) in December, I understand they’re keeping up with the Jones, and I can enjoy it as much as the next man.  It’s when their clothing covers less than a corset/teddy/slip is when it turns slutty.

    And I don’t think of women as ” Objects whose value is appraisable by the clothing they use to cover or not cover their body,” thanks.  I’ll admit my ex cheating on me while I was deployed and then sending a trunk of my stuff back to Kuwait might make me a bit jaded towards women, but I still see them as meaningful pursuits, friends and interesting individuals.  I really just can’t believe someone who consciously choose to present herself so her ass is literally hanging out below her hemline is someone I want to meet.

  24. Ha ha! Honestly, not a “boob man” or a big Christina Hendricks fan (she’s attractive but nothing to freak out over IMHO). 

  27. Gotta disagree. Concern about moral judgments is the reason defendants are advised to dress well when appearing in court. 

  28. I agree-women wearing tights/leggings/spandex as pants is becoming ubiquitous. Some women can pull it off in a slutty way, many just look awful.

  30. alex, you are complaining about a woman dressing skimpy? do you complain when a person throws $100 bills in your direction?

  31. So what you’re saying is, you are as comfortable casting moral judgments on unknown women in everyday life as you are against someone accused of theft, rape, murder, etc? The fact that you had to resort to the analogy of criminal defendants to make your point about people casting the same judgments on men as women speaks for itself.

  32. I totally agree. So many guys here are basically ignoring the whole thing where men are privileged above women in society. Things are not equal. The reason no one calls men sluts or tramps when they dress inappropriately for a situation is because for hundreds and hundreds of years, men have been placed above women and women have been valued as objects. Society says a man can be whatever he wants, whereas a woman can be a slut, a tramp, a girlfriend, or a wife.

    Alex

  33. You missed the point.  Regardless of the crime that is alleged, people make moral judgments about clothing.  If you show up in baggy jeans, timberlands and a spraypainted t-shirt, it’s been shown through studies that people are more likely to find you guilty.  If you show up looking respectable in a suit, people are more likely to … well, respect you.

  34. 1.) A college bro in a t-shirt and cargo shorts unintentionally is letting people know he doesn’t care how he looks, he is dressing for his own comfort. The girl in the micro-mini dress and stillettos? That’s purely intentional. It’s dressing for neither comfort nor praticiality. She is showing off the goods and is putting her sexuality at the forefront.

    2.) I’ts not just men doing the judging. Girls can be just as harsh, if not more, towards each other. There was an article on Gawker/Jezebel recently about how girls tend to be less catty in the winter because they are more covered up than in summer.

  35. Nice to see someone who gets it.

    The fools (usually afflicted with the illness of political correctness) who say don’t judge by appearance usually don’t follow their own advice. These are ladies that clutch their purses tightly when a black man in a hoody and baggy jeans walks by, or get up and move to another seat when someone with a purple mohawk and wearing a motorcycle jacket sits next to them.

    I’ll never understand why people resist dressing well. I usually hear lame arguments like “Hey, I dress for comfort!” as if dressing well has to be constricting and uncomfortable. The little additional “effort” to dress well usually pays big dividends-you will be treated well and respectfully. 

  36. So if I tell my wife to put on something sexy for a night out on the town, and she puts on some little outfit that shows a lot of leg and cleavage and four inch heels, is she a tramp?

    I might wear a suit and power tie on that night out.  Does that make me a powerful, cutthroat manager at a Fortune 1000 company?  If that notion seems ludicrous to you (as it should), then why would I get a pass on the morality judgment while you’re looking at my wife and thinking, “Tramp”?

    My favorite clothes to wear are those that make me feel good.  They make me feel confident, sexy, and in charge of my own destiny.  Many women would say that they dress scantily because it gives them those same feelings of empowerment.  Truth be told, I find that sexy as hell.  Confidence is far more attractive to me than most other attributes.  So why is it ok for me dress in a way that makes me feel confident, but if a woman does the same, she gets labeled “tramp”, “slutty”, etc?  Sure, there are ways for a woman to dress to express those same emotions without showing a lot of skin, but why is it suddenly wrong if that’s exactly what she wants to do?

    I’m certainly no women’s lib feminazi but I definitely see a double standard on this issue.

  37. Gotta agree with you on this one. There’s something sexy as hell when a woman is confident with herself—so she’ll dress to further exude that confidence. If I’m going out for drinks and to a bar with the lady, it’s quite obvious all the other men around are checking her out and telling themselves when they see my arm around her; “That lucky bastard.”  🙂

  40. After careful study of this image honed by years of playing erotic photo hunt (look past the chest!), I can tell you she’s pouring Black Label, not Blue. (And I agree about Lagavulin, but Islays aren’t for everyone.)

  42. In Florida we’re still wearing shorts and flip flops this time of year….course it helps being 80degrees outside 😉

  43. Understandably we all like to dress in what makes us feel confident and sexy. However, I do not believe that wearing a barely-there dress and stilettos is what a woman should wear in order to feel sexy and powerful. This type of dressing is attention-seeking. 
    So this women goes out for the night, gets looks and attention from fellas and then she feels sexy. She gets a confidence boost. What happens when she goes home and takes the dress and the shoes off? What if next time she doesn’t wear the dress and stilettos. She doesn’t get the same attention. This is where women start to believe “Well, without the stilettos I’m not getting attention. I’m not attractive. I’ll have to wear them so I can get another confidence boost.” It’s a vicious cycle. And I am saying this from my own experience.
    I personally would not call these women tramps. But I feel sorry for them because they think they have to expose themselves in order to feel good about themselves. Now, I am not saying that women should be covered up from theirs necks to their ankles. But I do believe the way you dress reflects your attitude and how you respect yourself. If a woman had real self-confidence and self-respect she wouldn’t have to dress in such a manner to feel confident.

  44. Rationally speaking: Would you have noticed her without the “barely-there dress and stilettos?” If you noticed her, she succeeded and you fed into what you are speaking against.

    So if you want to establish that such a pattern of dress does not garner attention, you and the rest of the male population (myself included) and also the lesbian population (probably right?) would have to shut off the part of the brain that Nature designed to control attraction. Not going to happen.

  46. Umm, people make moral judgments about everybody based on everything (how you dress, how you speak, how you drink, etc.). People don’t make the same kinds of judgments about men based on clothing, partly because you don’t often see men wearing leggings as pants or swooping necklines. Now, these are two sides of the same coin, which is that mainstream society, for good or ill, doesn’t place nearly as much weighting on sex when it comes to a man’s “value” as opposed to a woman’s (Which I think Beth addressed fairly). But suffice it to say if I see a dude wearing an Ed Hardy tee and spiked hair at the bar, I make a moral judgment about him.

    That said, I think OP’s question could have been a bit more clearly phrased. Is it “slutty” clothes that bother you, or seasonal inappropriateness? Because it’s possible to be one (leggings as pants), the other (the Duchess, if it’s cold out), neither (sweater lady from Women’s Style Wins), or both (Katy Perry).

  47. Did the person who asked Beth the question say where he was from? I’m just wondering if he’s in the town from Footloose.

  48. Whenever I hear this, I just hear a lot of guilt. Men traditionally have more power, but I disagree that men are always privileged above women, as if the double-standard only goes one way. When was the last time you heard of a woman getting drafted? How about the last time a woman gave up her seat for you? A lot of purportedly enlightened men loudly bemoan the double-standard while chivalrously giving up their seats to people selectively based on gender. That perpetuates the gender pigeonholes as strongly as dubious appellations.

    I’m also sure that society sends a much broader range of signals than you suggest. What about after a man gets a woman pregnant? Can he be whatever he wants, or is he now supposed to be a husband? Women can certainly be more than those four things you mentioned, but let’s talk about men. A man-slut means nothing, but what about a weak or effeminate man? How does that compare to women with similar qualities?

    Don’t get me wrong: I’m not in favor of being rude to people, period. I just think that some men these days confuse chivalry for equality.

  49. I don’t see him defending it. I see him recognizing a natural human tendency and addressing it.

  50. I don’t see how noticing a woman’s sexuality is devaluing. Conversely, I do see that suppressing a woman’s sexuality by suggesting that it doesn’t exist (or shouldn’t be recognized when flaunted) is devaluing and borderline misogynistic. If you want to demolish a double-standard in a helpful way, let women be sexy and don’t hate them for it. Hell, while you’re at it, let men be sexy, too.

  51. I’m really heartened to see that men in monasteries are allowed access to the internet and sometimes choose to use that time to write questions into dappered.com. It really contributes to the diverse tapestry of life.

  52. >I’m really over the use of terms like “tramp” and “slut” used to describe women based on how they dress. Come on, dudes. No one makes moral judgments about you based on what you’re wearing.

    …Christ. Really? “White Knight” Feminism…on Dappered, of all places? Did somebody re-post this to some feminist blog or something? Can’t we talk about fashion objectively without these people showing up?

    Everyone is judged by what they wear, how they act, and what they say. Including men. It’s not rocket science. It’s human nature.

  54. You completely misread it. I DO think that women are sexually repressed by society, and I think it blows. I was addressing the Alex’s suggestion that “men are privileged above women in society”.

    Regarding the examples: every man in Switzerland is drafted into the military. Ships still sink in the 21st century. Most city-dwellers ride public transportation daily. You may disagree, but I think that the ubiquitous expectation that men should risk life and limb to protect women (including strangers) is a perfect counterpoint to the idea that women are “privileged” above men. Society signals that a woman’s life is more important and that men are expendable.

  55. My unwanted super honest/crass opinion:

    Some women dress like whores for attention (slutty halloween outfits anyone?). Outside obvious cases of the women who were failed by their fathers (or lead astray by their mothers), most women know when they are crossing the line. your 98 year old grand mother is, hopefully, not crossing the line because she knows better and know that no one wants that jurassic parking spot . The exposed 28 year old that you are ogling wants a certain type of attention and has it. At this stage in her life, this is how she wants to be seen and treated. deal with it

    I’m surprise Beth even humored you with a response. it’s common sense.

    my suggestion:

    Stop playing stupid. You already know the deal… you knew it the first time you had a wet dream… cut the crap. Would you rather be surrounded by women covered in down jackets, snow pants, uggs, and ski masks? NO! Don’t even think about lying.

    we are animals here to do one thing… procreate. We pile all this pretentious snobbery, culture, and logical crap on top of that basic, instinctive knowledge. The skin and preening you see is a reflection of that basic animal instinct… you do the same thing. You hit it the gym and you get all “Dappered” because you want to look good, you want to convey manliness, status, and that you are a suitable mate. You don’t dawn a potato sack and strut like Travolta in Saturday Night Fever, do you?

    stop playing the dummy roll and embrace life… love the game… play your position… call a spade a spade. Take in the sight and enjoy. Be thankful. The next time you see a women who could probably use more clothing, Say, “thank you!” thank you for sharing… women a awesome.

    If you prefer to date or be around prudent Eskimo women, change your scene. Library, funeral home, retirement home….. Siberia