Ask A Woman: Going out and the shirttail. Tuck it? Or leave it untucked?
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Hi Beth,
Over the last few years I’ve migrated from a younger looking sense of style, to a much more grown up (some would say older) look. One of the things I’m just not that comfortable with anymore is going out on a Friday or Saturday night with an untucked shirt. It feels a bit sloppy and too young. But when I tuck it in I feel too business casual if I’m wearing chinos, and almost cowboy like if I’m wearing jeans.
Any suggestions? And do women view guys who leave their shirts untucked as younger or less polished?
Owen
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Hi Owen,
Until I read your email, I hadn’t spent much time thinking about whether I prefer a tucked or untucked shirt on a man. Now that I’ve dived into these murky waters, I’m consumed with thoughts of tucking or not tucking (um, is it just me or does that sound…suggestive? I think I’ve been spending too much time with you guys). I took a look around at some of the usual suspects for men’s style and clothing, hoping for some unofficial rules that I could pass on. Here’s what I found:
Button-downs
Mostly, button-down shirts are shown tucked in. This look is, as you pointed out in your email, undeniably business casual. But I found a couple examples of untucked Oxfords that still look sharp. In this example, the bottom of the shirt stops right at the crotch, so it’s not oversized. But I think what really makes this look successful is that the shirt is pressed from top to bottom.
A lot of times when we see an untucked button-down, it’s because it was formerly tucked in and now, after too many Jack and Cokes, the shirt has slipped out of the pants, and has that wrinkled accordion pattern on the bottom quarter of the shirt. If you wear a well-fitting button-down, iron it, and purposefully wear it untucked, it can work.
Polos
Polo shirts are shown untucked. BUT, this is contingent on the polo fitting perfectly which means that it hits just below the waist band of your pants. If you are wearing a polo that is longer than this, it’s probably going to look sloppy and too big worn untucked. This, for example, looks an inch or two too long to be worn untucked.
Tees
Casual t-shirts are shown universally untucked. Another example. Not much to say about it, really–t-shirts are casual and untucking is casual.
I did notice a trend, favored by one brand in particular, in which shirts of all different kinds are shown with a casual it’s sort of tucked in but sort of not style. See this page. Two or three inches horizontally across the front of the shirt are just barely tucked in while the sides of the shirt are resting at the waist, and the back might be half untucked/half tucked. It looks good, there’s no denying that. It shows off the lean physique of the model, highlights the waist detail of whatever pants are being worn, and gives off a too cool to care what’s happening with the bottom of your shirt vibe. I have to wonder if that’s a sustainable tucking situation, though. Would the shirt stay half tucked/half untucked for the whole day? Or would you be constantly rearranging?
To answer your final question, Owen, no, I don’t think women view an untucked shirt as a sign of youthful ignorance or sloth. As I’ve said before, you can control much of how others perceive your style by the purpose with which you put yourself together. If you have a neatly pressed button-down that fits well and is worn untucked with jeans, women will be aware that you’ve made that choice purposefully, not that you’re too lazy to bother with tucking in your shirt. Whereas Uncle Joe on his eighth Jack and Coke, dress shirt askew, making an ass of himself at your sister’s wedding, will be presenting a different impression.
-Beth
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This question is a good one. From a perspective of someone who had this question a couple years back, i found a few answers through trial and error.
Button down: CAN be worn untucked (Caveat: the shirt MUST be well fitting and the tail of the shirt cannot go past your back pocket, and choose the right shirt, dont ever where a frech cuff shirt untucked, this is sloppy period). This is also where knowing where your going matters, out for drinks at your local hole in the wall with the guys say be as casual as possible = untucked, cuz tucked wont work; at a jazz lounge, or going somewhere “nice” tucked preferably under a sweater or sport coat.
Polo: this is the go to option IMO. because its so elusive, weat it with a blazer, tucked untucked, it doesnt matter because the Polo can do what ever you want it to. If you start the night dinner with the wife or something wear a blazer over it. And if you take the wife home and go hang with the fellas keep the layer on and take it off it the setting calls for it.
T-Shirt: ONLY if its hot out should you be wearing a T by itself IMO. other than that wear it with a v-neck or a a thin cardigan and you will look relaxed.
FIT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS
Can an untucked button down look good if it fits well and is ironed? Yes. Do you still look like a 22 year old college student regardless? Yes.
I don’t mean to come across offensively, but tucking in a button down shirt is not “business casual”, it’s dressing like a grown up. If you’re a 22 year old college student, or if you’re intentionally going for that youthful appearance, then that’s cool; otherwise, if it’s a casual event, wear a polo untucked instead.
i completely agree with you and dont think this is offensive in any way we (as i have seen some of your other posts, you seem to know your stuff) must help the younger college guys shape up. i was once (only a few years ago) that poorly dressed guy that thought i looked like Gods gift to the world, until my wife (GF at the time) set me straight.
Dress shirts (button down or other): tucked.
Polo: tucked with dress pants, tucked or untucked with chinos, untucked with jeans.
Tee’s: untucked.
#Correction Button Down refers to the collars of the shirt. Button Down collars were popularized by Brooks Brothers on their Sport Shirts when those who were playing polo noticed the collars would always come up. The button down collar fixed this issue. This is also why only until recently have you seen Ties worn with button down collars as the button downs were for “sport”, but obviously that old habit has gone by the wayside (Rightly so). The shirts you have images of are Button-Ups, as you start buttoning them from the bottom up.
A good tip from will sasso @willsasso:twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/WillSasso/status/14727356749
Right you are about the terminology. Aren’t I a dweeb.
I’m good with all the other rules, but I can’t get behind tucking in a polo shirt. It just screams Engineer circa Office Space. As an engineer, I try to stay as far away from that stereotype as I can…
I’m bored at work, so let me say a few things.
I completely sympathize with you here, cowboy feeling and all. There is nothing worse than walking into a room full of untucked t-shirts when you’re tidied up in your best young republican outfit, or in the alternate, turning a corner into some polished young ladies while you’re appearance forces them to question your employability.
I err on the side of tucking in a button up. I am at an age, over 26, where the world expects me to have obtained some sort of status, ideally achieved through the virtue of personally responsibility, which, because most people in the world haven’t had the pleasure of meeting me, is best exhibited by a presentable appearance. To be sloppy is to tell the world you have no expectations to meet, thus no responsibility, thus no status.
And in the lyrics of The Hold Steady; boys go for looks, girls go for status.
Rules, however, are meant to be broken, and there is a right way to do it and a frat boy way to do it. Going untucked needs to be done carefully. To begin with, it must be the right type of button up shirt. If it’s a true dress shirt (one you’d wear with a tie, like Brooks Bro or Jos. A. Bank), never, under any circumstance go untucked. These are too long and are cut differently, even the slim fit shirts, and will only make you look like you just got drunk at an office party. Also, avoid the cheese-ball clubber look, which is easier to fall into than you think. So, obviously, no wide open collar shirts with flat front shoes (in fact, never wear flat front shoes. period.) But also be weary of larger patterns, especially large stripes. These stand out in a bad way that says “look at me!”. If you see a cowboy in the mirror, tucked or untucked, either change out of the plaid or any denim resembling color shirt and switch your belt to black or a non leather, also check your shoes. Even spread it out and go with the perfectly acceptable partial tuck; back tuck, front tuck, side tuck, whatever makes you feel comfortable.
Make sure whatever button up shirt you wear has proper fit, meaning it’s not blousey or puffy like your dad’s old LL Bean shirts, and the sleeves won’t give you flying squirrel arms. As stated in the comments above, FIT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING AT WORK HERE. Keeping a tight fit shows off your adult figure, which saves you from being confused with the college boys. And the right pattern and color ensure that what you’re doing is not the result of a lack of social intelligence or awareness.
Also, use an offset. An offset is something subtle that counters an otherwise faux pas look. It turns sloppy into casual. Here, some of the best offsets are your watch or your belt, maybe your shoes, or if you’ve got cojones of steel then even a hat would be acceptable. It’s the finer detail that compensates for whatever rule breaking you’re attempting. If you’re untucked, have that stylish nylon or canvas bright belt underneath to reveal during those “inadvertent” partial shirt tucks or leans. Or wear the intricate, eye-catching time piece. Make sure your hair is undeniably perfect. If you wear glasses, with the right pair you’ve got an advantage. There is a lot you can do as offsets. It sends the signals that yes, you are not currently ideally presentable to impress a judge, boss, or father, but you not only have the means to do so if you chose, but also the control to set the terms of any such encounter should you need.
For polos I err on the side of untucked. By their nature they are indecisive shirts. Are they dressy? Are they casual? If it can’t decide how can the wearer? We have more important things to do in life than to be bogged down by something else’s indecision. So do whatever and just be comfortable.
As for t-shirts, why would you ever tuck in a t-shirt?
Ok, so that’s lunch. Hope this helps.
In the two top photos, the black shirt has a straight hem, meaning it was meant to be worn tucked or untucked. A standard dress shirt, with longer unfinished sides, should always be tucked in. I mean, if you’re older than, say, 12.
Agree, the shirt makes all the difference. And context, of course
What are flat front shoes?
Do you mean square toe?
An old adage my father taught me…
“If you’re not tucking, you’re not f***ing!”
thanks John. I was going crazy reading all of these replies. A button down shirt is actually MORE casual than a button up.
I don’t know but they sound very uncomfortable!
Glad you brought this up. It’s a pet peeve of mine when people misuse the term button-down.
I never wear polo shirts tucked it.
As for button-fronts, I frequently do wear them untucked as well. Granted, the shirts are well-fitted and not overly long, which makes a difference. So why do I go untucked? It has to do with my build. I have very long arms and legs, and a rather short torso. An untucked shirt adds a bit of length to my torso, and makes me look a little bit more balanced.
I rarely start at the bottom of my shirts with buttons (whatever the heck we want to call them) and button up.
I would only wear an untucked button down if its fitted and the hem is short AND straight (not significantly longer in the back and front).
I can’t get behind a tucked in polo or tshirt in any circumstance where it’s on its own (i.e. not being worn under a sweater or jacket). You just need to get polos that fit rather than messing with ones that don’t.
The partial-tuck or “J. Cruck” as Beth calls it, is the worst idea since cargo pants. It looks like you just went to the men’s room and forgot to look in the mirror on the way out. Probably didn’t wash your hands either…
I hike my pants up to my rib cage. The ladies love it.
is this sill about tucked or untucked? if so, it all depends on how it fits and “mode” of the venue. even a ill fitted suit has no place in the universe. a tucked shirt looks terrible if ill fitted.. a $100 dollar bill looks just as good, folded or unfolded.. but if it`s ripped or overly wrinkled….what year is this???? what is a shirt?